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List of Minigame Improvements

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Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

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Lol, did you happen to see the Dev Q&A stream?

Had one (of several) questions on Minigames answered, on there... basically, the answer boils down to:

~'We won't do anything to encourage people to play Minigames more, unless people start playing Minigames more.'*

Not quite sure why the illogicality of that hasn't been blindingly obvious, but if you leave something broken for ages, with little incentive to do it, and then gradually remove all existing incentive to do it, while adding more and more incentive to do anything but that thing.. then ofc fewer and fewer people will do it.. and the numbers will continue to decrease until you actually provide an incentive to do it in the 1st place .


Incentive to do content needs to be equal, for all content to have a fair chance.

The reasons why a lot of Minigame lovers (those who haven't already quit playing RS, because they're fed up with Years of neglect, with decreasing player pools) don't currently play Minigames more, are usually one or more of the following:


• Lack of incentive to play - no rewards worth doing it for/no rewards.

• Too much pressure and incentive to do other content - often they want to get back to what they love, eventually , but feel they must Max 1st, then must Comp, then must Trim, must get 120s, must get IFB.. and by the time they do get all those, Minigames will be in such a state (if they are still in existance at all), that they either can't play them, or can't enjoy them anymore.

• Bugs and glitches making play impossible.

• Lack of ability to play, when they do go there - not because there aren't people there, but because no one is playing, due to the fact afking is more rewarding than playing, so why would they ever bother + if and when anyone does bother, they find out that it's less efficient, and that it's prevented/made unenjoyable by the afkers.

• Decreasing pool of players to play with - due to the other reasons.

01-Jun-2016 03:31:29

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

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So it's not really surprising that Minigames are played less than other content.


Preventing use of something, then whacking on a target for it getting more use before you encourage use at all, is just illogical, as far as I see it.

If you'd done the same with any other content, as you've done with Minigames, then they'd be just as empty, if not more (as with quite a lot of content, it's only done because of gains, not because anyone enjoys it - yet with Minigames, there are a few people who've fought past all the barriers and obstacles you've put in place, in order to find out it's fun, and they enjoy doing it, even though there's absolutely no incentive for them to carry on doing it, for any other reason).

01-Jun-2016 03:35:48

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

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Jagex keep encouraging the nauseous "all I want is xp" attitude" and this saddens me. The last minigame updates were great (Heist, FoG update**** update & hard mode) and almost all minigames were always flocked by (non-afk) people just a few years ago, so it's clearly the players' fault that minigames are all but deserted nowadays, and Jagex only encourage this. :( As evidenced by this thread, while soem minigames could use an outright full rework, a dozen or so small but important 'ninja' fixes would be more than enough for most of them. Then, if afk'ing in non-solo minigames is made a reportable offence, and Jagex advertise minigames more, we should be good.

I'm even considering a daily xp cap that increases with total quest points so that even the xp addicts would be forced to stop after a certain amount - and that's a radical, Draconian procedure. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

02-Jun-2016 07:32:23

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

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Lol, sounds like an awesome idea. :p

Though tbh, even if they implemented it, it would probably just make ppl log in for xp, then log out.. + there would be mt ways to overcome it.. :/



Heist was great! But it had a system which gave more reward to non-play, than to play.. so people ofc didn't play (non-play takes less effort, so it's already got a massive inherrant advantage, there's no excuse at all for making it give more reward, too).

PC update was great - added new rewards, and fixed a couple of issues.
Could have done more to tackle non-participation, though.

Cabbage Facepunch was quite good - it has very good reward, it's easy to do, and it scales well with effort, the gameplay was somewhat uninspiring though, and there are issues with it such as:
• There's a great highscores.. but you can be put into games part-way through.
• There's not enough lag-allowance when being put into the instance, to gauge whether someone can feasibly get to the other side in time, when put in mid-round.
• Some of the reward abilities are purely for trolling other players, and give benefits for doing so.
• If you end up dying, you get reduced points, which is fine, but you aim is then to make life as difficult as possible for other players, who wouldn't have been effected if you hadn't died.
(this is fair enough.. just about, if they hadn't made it so some people die on entry).


BarB A was pretty nice.. there are a few problems though, which stemmed from not listening to the community who played it, and the problems were pointed out in advance to them by that community, and have happened exactly as those people said they would.
- on top of that, the inability to choose which bxp you get has put a few folks off, and indeed makes it useless for people who've already met their goals in one of the skills.

02-Jun-2016 16:43:50 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2016 16:54:00 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

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The point with Barb, cropped up with the grouping system, and Spotlight.. they didn't listen to any of the downsides pointed out by Minigamers, well in advance, both in the actual development stages when they were asking for input for the system, and on the thread they took the idea from, which had been getting all the problems pointed out for over a Year before they decided to go with the idea.

They didn't listen to any of the negatives, nor any ways to reduce their impact, if unwilling to try something different (that could be positive), instead.

The negatives pointed out have happened almost exactly as was explained, and the ineffectiveness has happened, largely for the reasons foretold. The problem here is, that instead of that encouraging them to listen to the Minigame Communities, when thinking about updating Minigames, this seems to have made them decide not to do any updates for Minigames, at all.

This is a shame, as there are lots of things with the potential to help Minigames, if done correctly, as long as it's done before too late... and putting off doing them just makes it less and less useful, and thus less and less likely to get done.



With the FoG update, there were positives, but all that was undermined by it being unfinished, and with the most important things left out... what positive things were done, were counteracted by the negatives (rewards added, and rewards removed), and they had no chance to be effective without the rest of the proposed changes.

Indeed it would have been better to hold off for a while, till someone else had a chance to finish it off, than to release it as it was.. as not only has it not been beneficial, it's also meant that FoG (and Minigames) has had 'an update' so has gone to the back of the queue.. also when judging how effective updating Minigames is, they gauge that 'update' as an example of it not being worth it, without taking into account that it wasn't a finished update.

02-Jun-2016 16:53:06

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Jagex keep encouraging the nauseous "all I want is xp" attitude" and this saddens me. The last minigame updates were great (Heist, FoG update**** update & hard mode) and almost all minigames were always flocked by (non-afk) people just a few years ago, so it's clearly the players' fault that minigames are all but deserted nowadays, and Jagex only encourage this. :( As evidenced by this thread, while soem minigames could use an outright full rework, a dozen or so small but important 'ninja' fixes would be more than enough for most of them. Then, if afk'ing in non-solo minigames is made a reportable offence, and Jagex advertise minigames more, we should be good.

I'm even considering a daily xp cap that increases with total quest points so that even the xp addicts would be forced to stop after a certain amount - and that's a radical, Draconian procedure.

I do not really agree with punishing players for wanting to play around partially broken design faults - Jagex should rather give incentives to play those games on the one hand (this could be xp, this could be some moneymaking (tradeable rewards), this could be some awesome item rewards - just think of mobilising armies ring imbues extended to modern ones, maybe for those on a charge basis to encourage returning, this also could just be some awesome cosmetic (I know they don't want to do this due to treasure hunter / solomon, but it is just a thought)) and on the other hand they should make those games appealing to play (bring them up to modern design standards - it is ridiculous cw for instance still has a winner takes all system (yes - winning should be rewarded, but giving the loser nothing is no-go) - you don't need to rant about players to afk if they're going to lose and getting nothing for it (silver tickets are useless -> nothing)), rework them graphically, just bring them up to the standards modern content has Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

02-Jun-2016 16:58:58 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2016 17:00:21 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Continued: To prevent something like this winners should be able to win the game prematurely if they dominate it (could be something like - first team scoring 5 (take this just as an example - it could be adjusted higher or lower of course) flags in cw wins), they don't need to totally dominate a losing team for 20 hell-long minutes - and the loser don't need to endure this. Then introduce systems like reasonable team sizes (let a cw game go if has e.g. a 30v30 situation), allow regular matchmaking in order to prevent staking, use those goddamned instance shards,...

There is so much that could be done to make those games more enjoyable - just by working on the game mechanic itself

Of course I also do not think it is good what is happening, but look rather at the reasons instead of the result (and once again in here - it is better to reward, instead of punishing) - and mechanics shouldn't be allowed to remain broken just because some deadlocked guys think about losing their face because of trimmed or something else. The games should be fun - but partially they just aren't Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

02-Jun-2016 17:09:07 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2016 17:30:14 by Rikornak

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.


and mechanics shouldn't be allowed to remain broken just because some deadlocked guys think about losing their face because of trimmed or something else. The games should be fun - but partially they just aren't

This.

Even when the idea doesn't (or didn't) effect trim, or any other content, and when it had only positives for the content, they don't do it. They never reply to valid system ideas, about the system ideas, only ever to say they won't bother doing it because not many people use the content - regardless of the fact the current system being largely to blame for that.



With Gop, the solution is simple, and it's one that regular players have been asking for since 2009 (when they'd not completely lost trust in anything getting done, and thus would all bother posting supports - something even most who are still around don't do, cus they don't believe anything will be done, anyway).

02-Jun-2016 18:43:25 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2016 18:47:02 by Yusou Bhoroi

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I've got a new PvP Hybrid Armour related improvement:

I think we all can agree it is quite anoying and interrupting getting this claim message after each game won at a certain point, so I would change this in a way you can obtain each piece of armour only once as a drop (or prematurely when purchasing it with thalers). Armour lost could then be replaced for free at those 5 minigame managers and the thaler shop Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

05-Jun-2016 06:22:55 - Last edited on 05-Jun-2016 07:28:53 by Rikornak

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