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Thoughts on RuneScape's Combat

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21-Sep-2022 02:51:00

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Tenebri said :
i think the game has evolved around EOC rather well. first few years sure many things needed ironed out. but now i think its where they wanted it and being over decade from eoc it has clearly evolved with it for the better


Exactly, evidently players have adapted very well into EoC.

21-Sep-2022 03:14:07

Jack Flac
Feb Member 2022

Jack Flac

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Dilbert2001 said :
Tenebri said :
i think the game has evolved around EOC rather well. first few years sure many things needed ironed out. but now i think its where they wanted it and being over decade from eoc it has clearly evolved with it for the better


Exactly, evidently players have adapted very well into EoC.
Tell that to the pvp players....We've been complaining how shitty it is for the past 10 years.And Jagex keepsmaking it more shitty.

Just because people have adapted to something does not mean it's in a good space.
Leader of The Enemy ||
The opposite of Justice is simply another Justice. What is Evil is subjective to each person.
YOU
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21-Sep-2022 03:17:42

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Sylvanheart said :
There is no wrong or bad here; it’s just a collection of hypothetical combat systems. Do feel free to comment on how you might add to someone’s idea, though. Just don't put down others, please.


I have added to your idea with the Revolution Mode. Do you want to share with us your experience and opinions on it?

If you haven't tried it or wasn't familiar with it, I also suggest you may try to revisit it by going through the new player tutorial system. They set you up for Revolution Mode. Good thing to try.

21-Sep-2022 03:27:22

Sylvanheart
Oct Member 2023

Sylvanheart

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Jack Flac said :
Revolution is not the answer. Revolution is running away from the problems of EoC. The tick rate isn't even the core issue with EoC either. It's the grid system, which is not possible to do anything about. If the combat was actually good, everybody would be using Full Manual. News flash, majority don't bother with that.

This thread actually does something to address some of the real issues present in EoC from day 1 till now. Do I think it's perfect, no. But you really need to stop talking like you know what you are talking about when it's painfully obvious you don't.

An ability system based around a point and click tile system would actually be a huge improvement over what we currently have. And reworking adrenaline to come mostly from Basic attacks is something that has been suggested more than once, and not without cause. It's actually quite a good idea.


I appreciate the thoughtful response. Although it would be unfair of me to not also ask you to be careful with the provocations. Much as I appreciate having someone stand up for my thread, if everyone starts hurling insults at each other then nothing is going to get discussed in earnest.

Anyways, that aside I think you are probably right that the neglect of the grid system is the more pressing matter. Even just keeping things the same but highlighting the grid to show strike zones, movement pathing, detection zones, etc, would very quickly make everything start to feel so much better.

I do still think the ticks are an issue though. I was just doing some Slayer before this and noticed a few more jarring situations. Like animations getting cancelled or delayed, and also the painful impact of being a little too slow or too early to activate an ability. Too early and I miss a splat of Assault, etc. Too late and I end up waiting an entire tick before my next ability activates, which feels really weird. Would feel "laggy" to new players.

21-Sep-2022 03:29:14

Sylvanheart
Oct Member 2023

Sylvanheart

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I've also had issues getting things like potions and prayers to activate on click, which may or may not be related to the tick system. Only really an issue when I'm trying to click multiple prayers or potions in quick succession. Inevitably one or more of them just won't activate.

21-Sep-2022 03:29:46

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Sylvanheart said :
I've also had issues getting things like potions and prayers to activate on click, which may or may not be related to the tick system. Only really an issue when I'm trying to click multiple prayers or potions in quick succession. Inevitably one or more of them just won't activate.


Every thing is related to the tick system. Players using Legacy Mode in RS3 or OSRS players also have such issues, and more like dead clicks etc, but again, the Tick system is not EoC. It existed from the beginning of RSC.

As for your clicking issue, you will still have them in pre-EoC Legacy Mode. Actually this is why EoC and Revolution Mode come in better for you as you can use keybinds to drink potions and switch prayers without mouse-clicks.

21-Sep-2022 03:37:14

Sylvanheart
Oct Member 2023

Sylvanheart

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Dilbert2001 said :
I have added to your idea with the Revolution Mode. Do you want to share with us your experience and opinions on it?

If you haven't tried it or wasn't familiar with it, I also suggest you may try to revisit it by going through the new player tutorial system. They set you up for Revolution Mode. Good thing to try.


While I'm not sure that added to the discussion exactly, I actually do think it would be a good idea to talk a bit about Revolution.

I would have to agree with Jack that Revolution feels like running away from the problems with EoC. Although it does allow players to lazily automate ability usage and thereby bypass what I would consider the problem of excessive input demands from basic abilities despite how difficult the tick system's wonky timing makes it to actually do so consistently, that same automation takes away from the game because to actually use EoC effectively the player needs to adapt to the situation appropriately, using the correct abilities at the correct times. That's true even while training Slayer on easy mobs. I need to actively use certain abilities at certain times and, more troublesome when running Revolution, save others for use at other times . That doesn't just apply to Thresholds, but also Basics. Like using Dragon Breath and Chain to AoE effectively, using weak-hitting abilities to finish off low health targets, and opening combat with high-damage channeled abilities.

In that sense, Revolution isn't that much different than just running on Legacy. It's designed to let players simply click and wait. It's just that Revolution lets players feel like they're doing it with abilities. Still, Legacy is better in terms of how well it works with the grid and tick systems, just on account of its simplicity.

21-Sep-2022 03:49:50 - Last edited on 21-Sep-2022 03:54:05 by Sylvanheart

Sylvanheart
Oct Member 2023

Sylvanheart

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Dilbert2001 said :

Every thing is related to the tick system. Players using Legacy Mode in RS3 or OSRS players also have such issues, and more like dead clicks etc, but again, the Tick system is not EoC. It existed from the beginning of RSC.

As for your clicking issue, you will still have them in pre-EoC Legacy Mode. Actually this is why EoC and Revolution Mode come in better for you as you can use keybinds to drink potions and switch prayers without mouse-clicks.


I never had such issues with dead clicks before. I mean, true "dead clicks" happened on rare occasion, sure, but this is a constant thing. I would never try to do something like Fight Caves now because I just can't trust protection prayers to activate. I used to think it was just my mouse, but I have since replaced it (for other reasons) and have the same issue.

As for activating things via the hotbar, that actually gets into reasons I dislike hotbar systems to begin with. They're hopelessly unwieldly systems that demand that the player manage to reach across their keyboard to a distant key in an instant and never miss it. I shouldn't need a 15-button MMO gaming mouse to play the game :@ . The only games that I've played with hotbars that work well are League of Legends (because it only uses QWER) and Final Fantasy XIV (because playing with a controller lets me use the Cross-Hotbar; the KB+M version of the game is unplayable in my opinion O_o ). Besides that, RuneScape's hotbars have a fairly limited number of slots despite a large number of abilities, so it's difficult to fit everything on.

21-Sep-2022 04:01:52

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Revolution is definitely not Legacy. Legacy doesn't work better with the Tick System. We can eat food, drink potion, switch prayer etc all without clicking with EoC/Revolution, but we can't do that in Legacy Mode and hence far more problematic. Somebody can even kill 4000% Enraged Telos blind folded without clicking the mouse once under EoC.

Legacy still shares the very same 0.6s tick with EoC and Revolution. If you have to run around, it won't matter if you are using Legacy or Revolution or EoC. In fact, the "grid" issue is much better handled with abilities blade dive or barge that take you right to the place you click.

We can easily see far far more players use EoC and Revolution Modes in RS3. Even long time OSRS players coming to RS3 mostly use revolution mode as they learned it from Tutorial Island.

21-Sep-2022 04:08:28

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