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Create Your Own Country 42

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Attacker732

Attacker732

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Enheduanna said :
Attacker732 said :
But, what about using Dark Matter to generate the anti-gravity needed to force the shell to the appropriate speeds?


Er, what?

Dark matter doesn't have anything to do with anti-gravity.

In fact, the gravitational effects dark matter has on the space around it is how we theorized its existence in the first place.

That's actually the second time you've mentioned dark matter and anti-gravity, and I remember raising an eyebrow the first time around. Where do you get that from?


I can't recall actually, I remember hearing about it maybe 2-3 years ago... Hmm... I'll have to try to find the source.

12-Feb-2014 23:35:10

D Chip

D Chip

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Since we've already gotten rid of v = (v1 + v2) / (1 + (v1v2 / c^2)) there's really no need to debate on the levels of impossibility for certain tech, as it might as well all be possible with different levels of difficulty.

Also Attacker, your slug could still be evaded, since if it can travel FTL, so can the information of its arrival via other means (ie sensors on the target).

12-Feb-2014 23:58:23

Enheduanna
Sep Member 2023

Enheduanna

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"Also Attacker, your slug could still be evaded, since if it can travel FTL, so can the information of its arrival via other means (ie sensors on the target)."

I think I was the one who said it would be nigh-impossible for the slugs to miss (or something like that).

That said, in hindsight, it's a little silly, since other ships also capable of FTL, teleportation, or something of that nature could 'hop' out of the way of the shots if they were aware of where they were aimed (or, they could just keep 'blinking' in and out of real space) - I think I was referring more to the sort of stand-and-deliver dreadnought-to-dreadnought battles.

However, most nations have at least some form of an anti-teleportation/interdiction field they can generate, if not multiple different variants, so in a pitched battle between two forces, most of the time everyone will be limited to sublight since both sides would be running said fields at the same time.

Being limited to sublight would make it rather difficult to dodge a shot travelling at FTL.

Well, it might be possible to dodge a shot 'simply' travelling at c or a little higher, but we're discussing Attacker's railguns here - I think his most powerful gun launches a slug at something like 50 c , and the average ones are anywhere between 10 and 20 c .

Note, however, that there is a difference between the shots hitting and the shots actually doing anything. I'm not saying that Attacker's railguns are the perfect weapon, not by any means, just that it would be difficult for them to actually miss.

Also note that in the situation I'm talking about, Attacker has perfect information on his target's positions and is not being fooled by some form of stealth or sensor-scrambling technology (i.e. if he's aiming at a dreadnought, he's actually aiming at said dreadnought , and if he fires, his attack is in line to hit).

13-Feb-2014 00:50:50 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2014 00:52:21 by Enheduanna

Attacker732

Attacker732

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10 c is the standard for anything larger than the 100kT ship-borne models. In-atmosphere, only the 1MT & greater fire at such a speed, the smaller shells just burn up before reaching the target... 50 c is correct for the most powerful ones.

Smaller guns are largely incapable of FTL, just due to a decreasing return of energy required versus damage done (More so if used against shielding... Small shells ricochet or are vaporized, larger ones punch right through); basically the larger ones are more efficient by a sufficient degree to justify their use.

13-Feb-2014 11:50:11

Enheduanna
Sep Member 2023

Enheduanna

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Attacker732 said :
In-atmosphere, only the 1MT & greater fire at such a speed, the smaller shells just burn up before reaching the target.


Wait, wait, wait. You're firing slugs at FTL in-atmosphere?

Assuming you're not firing it directly at the planet (and thus intending to crack it in half), that would not end well for anyone involved (I really hope you haven't attempted test-firing those on Reach, though I doubt you would have).

I can't be bothered explaining it all (since I'd basically be quoting directly from the what-if xkcd article on what would happen if you threw a baseball at .9 c and then telling you to upscale it to a ridiculous degree, or, even better, directing you to what-if-xkcd 20, which explains what would happen if you hit the Earth with a meteor made of diamond travelling at roughly the speed of light), but, yeah... firing things FTL in-atmosphere is a bad idea.

Unless, of course, you're intending to glass the entire planet, in which case, go ahead! =P

(Well, I say glass, I mean overcome its gravitational binding energy and literally shatter it into countless pieces, along with some other nastily destructive stuff).

---

Also, have you made any progress on finding the source for the dark-matter-generates-anti-gravity stuff?

13-Feb-2014 12:07:01 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2014 13:00:09 by Enheduanna

Attacker732

Attacker732

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They're anti-invasion weapons, they are made for shooting at targets that get WAAAY too close for comfort. Also, aren't you forgetting shielding? You think I would leave such powerful weapons unprotected?

Also, no. I suspect the literature I found that theory in got lost when my room was rearranged to make room for a new bed. (Along with about a lot of other stuff...)

14-Feb-2014 01:30:57

Enheduanna
Sep Member 2023

Enheduanna

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Did you, by any chance, investigate the what-if xkcd articles #1 and #20?

Pitching a baseball at 0.9 c would destroy the surrounding city (well, strictly speaking, it would annihilate everything within a mile radius, and the resulting firestorm would engulf the rest of the city).

Firing one of your slugs (let alone more than one) in-atmosphere would be an anti-invasion method only because there probably wouldn't be a planet left afterward to invade.

I'd need to have a rough guess of the power generation you're pumping into your shield, as well as go and look a little more in-depth at trying to upscale the baseball problem, but I'm not entirely sure if your shields could realistically protect you from the resultant effects of firing a slug at 10 c or greater in-atmosphere.

Assuming they could (which, since this is CYOC, seems a fair enough assumption), you'd still probably be doing more to damage your own shields than the invading force would be in attacking you. You would literally be defending yourself into destruction.

---

I suspect the literature may have been an... interesting source, too =P

14-Feb-2014 02:00:28 - Last edited on 14-Feb-2014 02:08:19 by Enheduanna

Sithlord Man

Sithlord Man

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Enheduanna said :
Attacker732 said :
In-atmosphere, only the 1MT & greater fire at such a speed, the smaller shells just burn up before reaching the target.


Wait, wait, wait. You're firing slugs at FTL in-atmosphere?

Also, have you made any progress on finding the source for the dark-matter-generates-anti-gravity stuff?


OH GOD NO. The amount of friction , would literally turn the air into a plasma, and actually undergo fusion. You would literally destroy everything except the target. Firing anthing at a fraction of the speed of light in atmosphere is a disastrous idea and should be a war crime.

EDIT: Actually, after reading that XKCD comic...Whats friction when you get something at 99% the speed of light.

EDIT 2: Ok. FTL weapon firing tech IS a war crime. HOLY CRAP.

Also, dark matter is more or less going to cause gravity. I actually got to listen to the physicist who discovered the effects of dark matter gravitational lensing. Dark matter is essentially what helps with distant gravitational lensing of galaxies.

14-Feb-2014 04:19:39 - Last edited on 14-Feb-2014 04:42:18 by Sithlord Man

Enheduanna
Sep Member 2023

Enheduanna

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"EDIT 2: Ok. FTL weapon firing tech IS a war crime. HOLY CRAP."

I don't see how it could be a war crime.

There's going to be nothing left to prosecute.

HFPE:

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End HFPE.

14-Feb-2014 07:00:47 - Last edited on 14-Feb-2014 07:48:59 by Enheduanna

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