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BD# / Siggy Guide - Revamp? Thread is locked

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Cyanid
Jan Member 2006

Cyanid

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Mexk said :
I feel the need to stress that whilst some players might prefer one alternative, it is by no means confirmed; much rather a matter of figuring out what the majority of the community wants. So, as Ruby said already, everyone's opinions matter indeed. It is however worth noting that the OP of one thread has been inactive for roughly a year and that a majority of the thread needs updating per the new forum changes. A fact which sparked the initial thoughts.

There's only a few minor alignment issues on his post, other than that there's really no reason to recreate the thread.

I haven't even heard someone complain about this until now. And let's be honest, the people raising this issue wouldn't ever bother reading the first posts because they're well versed in ASCII art. I haven't seen any newcomer post on the thread and say "Hey I don't get this, threads outdated, etc." Don't you find it suspect that we're "solving" something that isn't even a problem?

And James still posts on occasion. Not every ASCII artist posts actively on the forums like other forumers. Just because he's on a little bit of a hiatus doesn't make it right to completely annihilate his thread for no reason. He still has a lovely, short and simple guide available on that thread.


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02-Jan-2016 13:07:14 - Last edited on 02-Jan-2016 13:13:03 by Cyanid

Iceberg
Sep Member 2008

Iceberg

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Just to address a few of the issues that have been brought up:

In regards to the histories of both threads, I fully understand that they may give a sense of nostalgia towards artists both old and new. Seeing things as they were when we left is something that warms the heart but that doesn't guarantee that those who come won't necessarily go again. Both threads date back to 2013 and most of us posting here were the ones posting back then too. Plus and minus a few of course.

I must stress, as Nop said earlier in the thread, that I too want what the community sees as best. When writing this I wanted to give a general idea on how a future thread may look to give some perspective to others out there that may wish to contribute. This is a brainstorming session and nothing would be decided without the rest of the community's views. My primary concern is that the lack of activity from Jameo and the guide not being updated in long enough could soon result in the sticky being removed; that's something that I want to avoid. I'll keep attempting to reach out to Jameo as I know that his say is important, but as is Long Hair's view: being the predecessor to BD#.

In regards to the benefits involved with putting both threads together, it gives us a new slate to include whatever we want to include. We have an opportunity to put our heads together to brainstorm what we can do to entice new artists in. We have the opportunity to create updated content. You may not hear about people talking about alignment issues because they may perhaps close the page if things become too confusing, which is something we cannot rule out. We can keep both resources separate on different pages, though there's no doubt that signatures are a niche of ASCII artwork and both overlap in various areas which is what made me go for the format that I mentioned on the first page as a general idea.
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02-Jan-2016 15:06:36 - Last edited on 02-Jan-2016 16:22:24 by Iceberg

Iceberg
Sep Member 2008

Iceberg

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For a thread title, well, we have all the time in the world to think of one suitable! BD# ASCII & Siggy Guide ? From the top of my head, and references the historic typo that would be easily identifiable to older artists and give them that heart-warming sensation of nostalgia that I mentioned earlier.

A new thread could contain things such as the history of ASCII on the RSOF in a post. We could link to various art galleries, schools, competitions, etc. It's a way of being able to get us all together and show open arms to the community. There's no sense in satisfying the long gone when the new is far more important for the lifespan and integrity of the community.

Being able to discuss the points that I mentioned on the first post are a way of indicating whether a project such as this is feasible and as Mexk said earlier: it's a matter of figuring out what the majority of the community wants.
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02-Jan-2016 16:22:42

Cyanid
Jan Member 2006

Cyanid

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Iceberg said :
You may not hear about people talking about alignment issues because they may perhaps close the page if things become too confusing, which is something we cannot rule out.

What a great point. No one is complaining about the problem, therefore everyone who's attempting this must have rage quitted before getting past the opening post!

The fact of the matter is, you have nothing to point to that suggests we need a new thread. You want to completely reshape the ASCII community to fit what you think it should be.

You delete the Bored #ere thread, we lose all the artwork that's happened over the past 2 years. We lose a public forum for people to actually discuss things with other artists. It does nothing but hurt what's left of the diminishing ASCII community.

If you want to help the community, why don't you actually start participating in community sponsored ASCII threads. Attacking the BD# thread is not the way to go.


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02-Jan-2016 17:23:07 - Last edited on 02-Jan-2016 17:31:23 by Cyanid

Nop Rs

Nop Rs

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I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to a new BD# thread, as Jameo hasn't posted in almost a year and he wasn't terribly active in the first place. I don't know of any way of contacting him? His membership has run out, so idk if/when he plans on returning.

I think the threads in their current format (two separate sig/logo threads) are the most inviting to people completely new to forum art. I just don't think as many people will want to go to page 2 of a thread that they don't know much about. In terms of exposure, I think two individual threads with the most important info on the first page with the current titles is best.

I'm not sure the content of either thread needs all that much updating (besides alignment issues). Forum art really hasn't changed much at all. I suppose if a new BD# were to be created, then it would be nice to have a sort of bulletin board near the top, but other than that…

I have to disagree somewhat with signatures being a niche of ASCII art. I've always thought the two to be rather independent. When I first came here I only did signatures and didn't start ASCII for almost two months. The community also used to be somewhat separated between signatures and logos. I think there are enough people that prefer one over the other to warrant separate threads.

The main thing I'm wary of is that change scares people. The community has taken the biggest hits when things have changed, not when things have remained idle. Biggest examples: font changes, RSA shutting down and ASA replacing it, the new ranking thread debacle of '10, along with in-game updates as well.

I'm going to post this thread's QFC on the BD# so Long and Sap* see it. That's really the only thread here they visit. Right now I'm open to creating a new BD# and expanding it to include a sort of bulletin board, links to other threads, maybe putting up a logo request form?, and maybe even incorporating a school into it. But I really don't think the threads should merge.
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02-Jan-2016 17:37:53

Nop Rs

Nop Rs

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"Biggest examples: font changes, RSA shutting down and ASA replacing it, the new ranking thread debacle of '10, along with in-game updates as well."

I should add that with the way I said this, it seems like these are all bad things; however, they all had good intentions (trying to revive the community).

The font changes were supposed to make the forums look better/more modern and attract new people, but they just drove the already active forumers away.

The Artisian Signature Academy was a community effort that was supposed to replace and improve upon RSA, but the changes were too much for most artists.

The new ranking thread was meant to instill fun competition, but instead led to disagreement and further broke up the community.
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02-Jan-2016 17:55:57

Cyanid
Jan Member 2006

Cyanid

Posts: 24,133 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nop Rs said :
this thread did have a slight coup d'état feel to it

That's completely what this is.


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02-Jan-2016 18:11:19

Evalie
Feb Member 2004

Evalie

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When I first read this thread, it didn't come across to me as a coup - just an admittedly hasty idea to join together. It's an interesting idea to have all ASCII in one thread, but I really don't know what to think.
sidenote: I'm not actually a predecessor to BD# - my guide was just on the front page :P


There are so few ascii artists left - personally I'd like for us to share the same thread and have all ascii together. Right now the activity is so scarce that I don't think there'd be a problem if we did that. But signatures and large ascii are pretty different, so I don't know if it makes sense to merge them. If the thread started getting more activity, it could become a mess.

One concern is that it might drive people off; they come into a thread with pages and pages of guides, and they feel like they have to sit down and learn before they can do anything... so they leave. It's very different to the atmosphere of Forum Games, where games are easy to learn and participate in.

And that's actually something I've been wondering about BD#: it's got this long guide on the front page, people might be getting the wrong idea that they have to create something professional, that they can't just come in and mess around with their keyboard til they create something. I wouldn't be opposed to a new BD# having just a couple opening posts: an introduction and useful links. Or if we were to merge, having a place to draw and a separate place to learn for those who might want more information. That might just be scrambling things though.

02-Jan-2016 22:15:02

Samsaurus99
May Member 2008

Samsaurus99

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I don't personally see much benefit to a merge as both threads have a completely different tone to them as others have pointed out earlier in the argument. I'd say the signatures one is a lot more informative as customised signatures would now be a bigger deal for the common poster with the added signature tool whereas I've always thought of the BD# thread as a big community sketchbook where you are free to create whatever, without the fear of drowning out text or the smaller stuff - which is a lot more customary in the signatures sticky, with people asking formatting questions or making short >200 character tags for their posts. I think if anything it'd create a big jumble of mis-matching art that would throw people off as signatures and logos vary quite a lot in style and usage. It could be intimidating to see huge multiple-post-spanning logos and maybe puts people off making smaller more personal designs.


Also like this point:

Nop Rs said :
I think the threads in their current format (two separate sig/logo threads) are the most inviting to people completely new to forum art. I just don't think as many people will want to go to page 2 of a thread that they don't know much about. In terms of exposure, I think two individual threads with the most important info on the first page with the current titles is best.



I would honestly say thread owner activity is not an issue for BD# as it is not a thread needed to be 'regulated' or updated (although some sort of bulletin board and advertisment as others have suggested would be nice) as it's a fairly self-explanatory thread.

I'm sorry but I don't really like the idea and I'm a bit puzzled as to why this is being brought up ...
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03-Jan-2016 01:17:19

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