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Damn. Right, then you have succeeded where I failed. He never told me that kind of stuff (Except something about doing stuff in the woods, which to me sounded distinctly bizarre)
Wait, wait, wait. You *fall asleep* when you're with someone? That's an ingenius way to put someone off!
Well, it's not an ant and a man. It's billions of ants and a man. And a supernatural Ant King that gives instructions inside the man's head.
Alright, not even I can defend you on that then. Other than the Ants' story, I was never explicit here. This story is about as explicit I have ever gone.
Yes well, Saradominists are allusions of something in the real life.
Lol, there are too many victims in this story.
I would argue that, during his five years in prison, his love for Tyler is the only thing that kept him alive, since his family and everyone else pretty much abandoned him. He could only focus on that, as there is nothing else to focus on, to make him want to live, other than wanting to avenge for himself perhaps (which again, might probably just be Ronny's interpretation of Edward's mind). It was impossible for Edward to know exactly whether Ronny was being malicious at the time. And is Ronny truly sorry? A friend of mine, NovelistElly, after reading this, told me that everything Ronny ever did was in his own self interest, and argued to a point where Ronny's selfishness becomes indefensible. Ronny is still going to 'gain' something, whatever he did.
Edward's sole purpose was gone as previously explained. If that is the only pleasant thing in life you've ever thought about for five years, every single day, every single night, and when that is denied from you, perhaps, in a moment of fury and anguish, you might do the same too. (And regret it later, but Edward doesn't have much time to regret though)

13-Sep-2010 14:06:02

To his credit? Perhaps. But it is also possible that Ronny is purposefully making Edward a more virtuous character than he actually is. It is possible. Anger indeed would not solve anything, but Ronny would still gain something even if he provided a good and just cause for his brother's suicide.
Technically, it doesn't counter how literature works as such. Why are we compelled to believe that Edward is mentally strong enough for such a heartbreak? He also knew that, if he went back, the truth of it will come out and he'd have to punish the priests. And of course, given his dreamboat has died (and no afterlife of any sort), the purpose of living at that moment in Edward is indeed gone.
We can't really know what Edward is feeling, without being Edward ourselves. At least, that's what this story is portraying on many levels.

So...are there any particular part of the story that you liked? You said your eyes were a little moist by the end and, I wonder which bit got to you (Two other readers had the same thing and different parts of the story got to them)? Any other feedback, improvements and so on?

13-Sep-2010 14:06:18 - Last edited on 13-Sep-2010 14:58:31 by Englishkid62

Yep, Prefix is a bit strange sometimes, but he's fun too.
Heh, I can stay up if someone asks. And at least I warn them that it's not going to be easy to go all the way with me before hand Only had one guy seriously took me up on the offer after that (I say "seriously" because when I was younger I apparently had a "reputation" of sorts at my school for being willing to do "things" but unlikely to "go all the way" As a result, quite a few straight guys who were "experimenting" would "experiment" on me) At any rate, the one guy that actually did take me seriously ended up staying with me for about two years, and we still never went all the way (we did go far though and our parents always thought it strange that guys our age wanted to sleep at each other's houses every other night, but apparently didn't suspect anything.) Of course, then my dad got a new job and my family had to move a good few hundred miles away (to a place where at least 50% of the population is phobic -_-)... if I could change one thing about my past that move would probably be it.
Hm, I really should stop talking about my personal life on public forums, huh?
Other than the Ant's story you weren't explicit? 0.0 Um, no offense, but you know how... "unusual" it sounds when you say that story was explicit, right?
As for Ronny, I try (with varying success) to give people and characters the benefit of the doubt.
Back to Edward, I did mention that I knew what I thought he should do would require heroic strength, right? What Edward did was honestly what could be expected given what he went through, it just wasn't the best case scenario (Of course, it sometimes seems that I am a starry-eyed idealist who disagrees with anything that is not as good as it could be.)
Aw, no afterlife? Tyler didn't seem to think that... That's sad, but then again, it seems you specialize in tragedies
As for what I liked...
My favorite scene was definitely the chapel scene. It was just too cute "He appears in the Form of a Man with many Countenances; and he hath a Book in his right hand. His Office is to teach all Arts and Sciences unto any; and to declare the Secret Counsel of any one."

13-Sep-2010 17:52:50

As for the part that made my eyes water (and they were not just a little moist, I honestly thought I might end up crying for a few moments there) that happened when I was reading Tyler's letter. It was just... well, it's hard to describe; what Tyler wrote was so noble, so pure, so courageous... and in the very end even in the face of death, his thoughts and wishes were for the one he loved. And as this is all presented, the reader simultaneously is forced to realize that Tyler's dead. Killed by those who couldn't see past their own prejudice and in the case of the king, his own reputation. Also, throughout all this, it seems Tyler has pretty much forgiven everyone (except maybe Ronny ) even though they don't deserve it. Then as if all this isn't enough, the reader also realizes how Edward is probably feeling from reading the letter. The combination of all that makes the letter very overwhelming.
As for feedback... how often does the master of a craft ask the student for feedback? In my opinion, even at your worst, you still keep up with the best of my writing and when you're at your best you completely outdo me. "He appears in the Form of a Man with many Countenances; and he hath a Book in his right hand. His Office is to teach all Arts and Sciences unto any; and to declare the Secret Counsel of any one."

13-Sep-2010 17:53:10

Wow, where you used to live sound awesome. Although not so cool that you moved. You guys seemed happy together. Damn, I'm sorry about that.
Though you are seriously more lucky than I am, as I have no private life to speak of, and thus none to share
Not really. It was inspired by a sick vision of mine, where the ants took the dominant role and the man is just overwhelmed with pleasure. It is stuff that I write so kids can have nightmares.
Yeah well, Edward is no hero. He's just a normal person, and a victim. So no heroic strength for ya
Wow, you're like almost identical to my beta-reader friend then! He always writes happy-endings because he wants to make his characters happy. He focuses on the best of humanity while I focus on the worst.
Needless to say, he hated every single one of my stories.
Yeah, for the tragic element, no afterlife of any sort. Definitely no no. Tyler said 'we'll be together at the end' and he is in fact referring to their bodies reduced to atoms that one day may find each other again and reunite, not afterlife of any sort.
I really ought to get out of this vicious cycle. People make me sad, and I write stories to make other people sad

13-Sep-2010 18:48:56

Hehehe, you're a softie aren't ya? My eyes were dry when I wrote it, possibly, having written The Priceless, I am kind of immune, or at least I'd like to think. I have read a lot of sad stories. But yeah, it was K Hearts in Desire & Demand that first showed me what letters could do. Obviously, the writer must be cool headed enough while emotionally engaged so that he could actually write such a cruel letter. I actually found it a little challenging to put myself into the shoes of a dying man, so I'm glad it pulled off. Wow, I never really analysed so much what readers are feeling at particular points, lol. Thanks for the in-depth explanation. Now 2 people almost cried at the letter, and 1 person almost cried at the Edward/Reldo scene in the prison, when they were first reunited and Edward was thinking about everything he could still do.
But before everybody puts Tyler as their favourite character, I do need to remind you that he did not suffer five years of surviving on hope alone.
I'm glad you liked the altar scene. Quite a few people find it cute. But including this much happiness in the story already made me feel uncomfortable
But a student can point at smudges on a master's work. Nah, I'm no master. Maybe you are too harsh on yourself
P.S. Given the title and the advert, did you at any point thought the story would take the title literally, given my reputation?

13-Sep-2010 18:49:10 - Last edited on 13-Sep-2010 19:13:53 by Englishkid62

It was pretty nice, although since we were still quite young (I had just turned 16 when we moved) our relationship wasn't very deep. However, it's quite possible that would have changed by now if that move hadn't happened.
And don't feel bad, that was about half a decade ago, and since the move, I haven't had much of a private life either. (People generally keep such preferences secret where I am now.)
Um... about ants, where do you get your sick visions from?
Most of my characters get happy endings, but they don't get those endings easily; they go through hell first, and then they can have their happy endings.
A softie? Me? ...Actually, yeah, although I try to hide it from the world most of the time.
True, Tyler didn't go through as much, but he's still my favorite character. And yes, I still hate that he got killed.
And writing happiness makes you uncomfortable? 0.0 Besides, we all know you only wrote about the happiness because the greater the happiness, the worse the pain if it becomes lost.
And... did I take it literally? Um... actually, yes. Up until the chapel scene I was just waiting for Ronny to fall for Edward, and trying to think up how I could both compliment your story and make it very clear that I am not a fan of that kind of "brotherly love" in the least. "He appears in the Form of a Man with many Countenances; and he hath a Book in his right hand. His Office is to teach all Arts and Sciences unto any; and to declare the Secret Counsel of any one."

14-Sep-2010 00:07:49

Lucky lucky
As for where I got my sick visions from...well, they just come. I probably was walking down the street when this idea occured to me, combining the idea of a human being dominated by some other creature (insects, because they are gross) and then settled on ants.
Yeah, that's normal for a hero to struggle against all odds and fight for the happy endings. It's good moral message. In my stories, well, people poop on the good guys.
Well, do you know, softies make the best writers? Of course, I am a softie too but I have to put on a shell to shield myself from my own writing. Being a softie is good though.
Too many people liked Tyler.
Yeah, happiness is created because the loss of it is far more terrible. I think I captured that in this story better than my other ones.
Got ya! I bet what happened after the altar totally changed your mind then? (And I did start the story by not disproving the reader's presumptions, until of course, the altar scene. It's a trick that I play.)
Were there boring bits in the story or places where the narrative pull isn't quite strong enough?
And you still owe me that post on The Priceless

14-Sep-2010 00:26:24 - Last edited on 14-Sep-2010 03:01:10 by Englishkid62

Bed time for me. Bye guys!

14-Sep-2010 02:51:32

Two more pages of you guys' long discussion for me to read

15-Sep-2010 14:27:50