RuneScape Forum Archive | ~~The Priceless~~

Dec

2014

Lokintr

Posts: 2,432 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Had you, for example, listed the constructive criticism, and not just silly remarks like “puffters should die”, or at the very least referenced them with “_____’s review, page ____”, it may have been more acceptable and not appear as conceit.
And please, English, don't be antagonistic. It is unbecoming in polite discussion.

22-Jun-2011 23:25:03

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

“As for the obsession, I understand what you’re saying, but you can** say that he did not end up obsessed with the game. It was so much more than just a means to an end. You said it yourself: Kipplin was aiming for 99 Farming with just one farming patch? The “ultimate test of perseverance”? Obsession, no?*
--Nope. Farming, like RuneScape, is also part of the test. David presumably hated the skill, but Kipplin wanted to prove him wrong. So this would be in line with what I said above.
”Also, I may have reverted back to my original argument, but you have adopted about three different stances throughout this discussion – David is not regarded as important, David is important but not regarded with any depth, David is simply a comment on real life apathy – and finally resorting to blaming the “narrator” for something that could be seen as the author’s oversight seems somewhat devious – it seems as though you are now just grasping for excuses to keep this particular part of the discussion going. As I said before, David is a main character and the object of the other main characters’ affections. He requires depth. Besides, giving him depth does not automatically give him “sympathy”, as you said earlier, but explains his motives, his reactions. If anything it would cause the reader to regard him with distaste that he could be so callous towards Kipplin.”
--I’m sorry, but they are not different stances. The narrator is biased and is trying to persuade the readers to feel for Kipplin, to see justice served – this leads to certain artistic choices, including the lack of depth which portrays real life apathy. And I don’t recall saying that I do not regard David as important. I have backed up my artistic choice with reasons and logic. It is not unreasonable to ask for his motives or reactions, or any underlying currents he may have – but ask yourself this: Does the narrator really know everything?

23-Jun-2011 01:29:46

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

”Please, save the passive aggression. I don't have a problem with the layout of your thread - there you go, missing my point yet again. I have a problem with you putting all of your praise on the first page and not mentioning reviews or other critiques of your writing at all. At least in my mind, it cast you in a rather pompous and conceited light. I told you that I thought it was pompous of you to list your praise on the first page. I didn't demand anything from you, but you must have a personal agenda since you appear to be putting my comment down and calling what I said unreasonable.”
--I suppose your accusation could go the other way. Are you actually arguing that putting the praises on the first page (or the balancing of it) isn’t a part of the layout? Because I would argue that what and where I put those comments are decided upon and is a part of the overall layout of the thread. So it evidently ‘bothers you’ that 'all' the praises are there. Actually, they're not all the praises I'd ever received. If I were to gather them all it would probably take about 10 posts of space, written by at least 50 individuals. Perhaps about 5, including you, were not satisfied by the story. But it seems your argument was about the lack of proper reviews or critiques on the praises post. Would it please you, if I were to put the following on the front page of this story?
90.4% in Chucklz's review.
Was an item in the Yanillian Library, checked by Die and Wizard.
91% in Cicobe1's review.
10/10 in Richardo’s review
Rated 95% by Lvl 3 Uh Oh
Scored 90% in User Rc101's Miracular Spectacular Reviews
93% in Turtamaster’s review from Shell’s Reviews
94% in Cosmic’s review from TNG
95% in Thranon’s review
91% in Orbie’s review from Full Circle’s Reviews
97% in Caydock’s review (Page 19)
85% in Azigarath’s review (Page 81)
90% in Mitch’s review from TNG (Page 82)

23-Jun-2011 01:29:55 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 01:59:22 by Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I thought not. Only the latter three survived, of course, and they are on this thread for you to view, if indeed you are interested in constructive criticisms given by others on this story. I do not prevent others from looking at these reviews, and they are free to agree with points raised in certain reviews, just as Mitch has agreed with a part of your review earlier. However, I’m quite sure that once you read those you’ll turn around and say that the ratings were misleading, as were the reviews when you finished reading them.

”And please, English, don't be antagonistic. It is unbecoming in polite discussion.”
--I assume that you also consider describing the other participant of the discussion as ‘pompous’ and ‘conceited’ is polite. While you seem to think that is true (whether it is is a different matter), your idea of a polite discussion seems far fetched. Furthermore, I have not yet antagonised you. Beginning with two posts of comments that sounded like a review from Sunday Times written by a literary critic (which I must say, from the way it was written, I can pretty well infer that you are not), you have since asserted your preferences on thread layout, and your ideals on what should or shouldn’t be put on page one, as though it was appropriate or in your position to do so. And a ‘polite’ discussion only lasts so long, if after the praises on page one you have already cast me in a ‘conceited’ light (which also says something about the criticisms you offered). I therefore have reasons to wonder if you were actually here to read. Lastly, we may continue this polite discussion if you so wish, if by ‘polite’ includes calling another pompous and conceited. Because frankly, I can think of plenty of other terms that would be within that level of politeness as well, and I wouldn’t mind using them.

23-Jun-2011 01:30:10

Raschilat

Posts: 15,486 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Well, despite the current debate that's happening, do you mind if I review The Priceless, English? You shouldn't have to be overwhelmed by two simultaneous reviewers and I feel it's polite to ask beforehand anyway.
I can tell you now (having already read the story) that my review probably won't be in the 90-100/100 range, but you fully deserve to know why that is and if you feel the need to ask why.

Thanks,
Scout

23-Jun-2011 01:59:46 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 01:59:58 by Raschilat

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I would be delighted to received a review from you. That said, my welcome depends on the manner in which the review is conveyed. As demonstrated above, I cannot guarantee to tolerate all kinds of reviews. And I don't believe the actual range I'll receive is the issue here - numbers mean little to me. Besides it's not like I haven't gotten bad reviews before. >.>
That said, if the story gets to something like 40% - 50%, do expect me to ask some questions. Though the worst review I'd ever gotten was something like 73.8% from Yrolg. His break down of the story really was quite interesting.

23-Jun-2011 02:02:01 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 03:39:42 by Englishkid62

Dec

2014

Lokintr

Posts: 2,432 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Kipplin wanted to prove him wrong, and this want turned into an ... ?
The narrator certainly should know more than what is presented. Perhaps you’re lacking when it comes to them, but I certainly know rather a lot about my best friends, and I imagine that it’s not too far-fetched that others do too. Also, I don’t really appreciate you recycling my arguments and sending them back.
Percentages are good, and a lot more solid than, for example, the words of your charming lapdog NovelistElly. However, I see that in that list you neglected to mention Yrolg’s review? Yet again you have missed my point. Loading your first page with obsequious commentary and then only listing the 90+ reviews is exactly what bothers me. Had you simply collected the quotes and kept them for your own benefit, as you weakly made out was the reason for the *two* posts on the Brotherly Love thread, then that would have been more acceptable, if a bit covetous and vain (as you actually stated yourself at one point in response to Azigarath, probably as a joke, but the point stands). As it is, your disregard for the recognition of negative commentary or even your many constructive reviews, and the fact that you have collected praises and stuck them on the first page for all to see as soon as they read the thread, is dreadfully conceited. Some of them aren’t even that meaningful? I do believe that on the Brotherly Love thread you quoted someone (I do believe Scribegoblin) as saying, “Awesome story,” and on this thread, Khearts as saying, “Ahh, so wonderful.” They are not in any way insightful comments as one would find on a proper blurb as you have referenced before and so serve no other purpose other than to appease your ego.
However, you’re definitely wrong about one thing: I would not go so far as to suggest that fellow reviewers are wrong or even misleading. After all, we’re entitled to individual opinion.

23-Jun-2011 17:21:08 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 17:27:10 by Lokintr

Dec

2014

Lokintr

Posts: 2,432 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

But if I really wanted to read commentary and other reviews, [which I don’t, as you’ve already supplied me with more than enough ... ] I would look for them in the thread. In all honesty I’m surprised you’re not flashing your credentials, which I imagine are many? Mhmm, wonderful restraint.
And yes, up until this point, I was being polite. Now, however, you have resorted to insulting me. So since you said it, I will confirm for you that no, I am not a critic writing in the Sunday Times. I am a sixteen year old student, who apparently has a better grasp of grammar than you, a better understanding of the word “polite”, has managed to knock your fragile ego to the extent that you’ve gone to the petty stages of mere insults, and is STILL being ignored. You’re really not listening to what I was trying to say. The layout is not the main problem. My “ideals” on what should appear on page one is not the most important issue. The problem here is your vanity, your conceit, and your comfortable position high on the smug pedestal of established elite.
And, for the record, this could still be seen as being polite: I haven’t called you arrogant or even pedantic yet.

23-Jun-2011 17:22:30 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 17:28:11 by Lokintr

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

“Kipplin wanted to prove him wrong, and this want turned into an ... ?”
--As I had already said, the idea of wanting to prove one wrong is an obsession in itself, but the means of achieving this (through the game) is not the obsession. It is an obsession in the back of one’s mind, not the act of doing something, because how he acted on this obsession can be entirely different, were the circumstances different.
“The narrator certainly should know more than what is presented. Perhaps you’re lacking when it comes to them, but I certainly know rather a lot about my best friends, and I imagine that it’s not too far-fetched that others do too. Also, I don’t really appreciate you recycling my arguments and sending them back.”
--This seems an unfair presumption. Our narrator is a human, and thus does not know everything, perhaps even less so, David’s history with this Kipplin. And given that our narrator had only met David for about three months when this event occurred, one cannot expect that level of intimacy. Being the ‘best friend in college’ doesn’t necessarily guarantee much, except that he’s the closest individual to him in that educational institution. It doesn’t mean he’s his best friend forever. And if you then say that the narrator would be wrong to call someone his ‘best friend in college’ merely by knowing them for a few months, then I will question your position to question somebody else’s definition for a ‘best friend in college’.
”However, I see that in that list you neglected to mention Yrolg’s review? Yet again you have missed my point.”

23-Jun-2011 18:05:43

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

--If you actually bothered to do a bit of research about it, instead of commenting straight away on a bit of information I posted purposefully for you to know, you will find out that no other has achieved higher than 73.8% as of yet. You will also find out that the review was written for a previous version for this story, and it was based on Yrolg’s insightful feedback that this version is now written. You will also not be rushing into conclusions that I disregard these criticisms when the very thing you read is a result of them.
I struggle with some of your arguments because they become increasingly nonsensical. Aside from the Yrolg review, the 90+ are exactly all the reviews I’ve gotten, perhaps with some more 100% I didn't bother to list. That you were using words such as ‘acceptable’ and so on are preposterous in themselves, as though you run this thread or, for that matter, write the laws of human morals on what is or is not acceptable. Even if you are a law maker, with arguments founded on presumptions with no evidence, you wouldn’t make a very good one. And frankly, insightful comments take up space. If a shorter description fits at the bottom of the post, I don’t see why not - particularly, I don’t recall it being written in Forum Specific Rules that all praises stuck on the first post must be insightful. Again, asserting your personal preferences over others seemed to be a dominant theme.
“I am a sixteen year old student, who apparently has a better grasp of grammar than you, a better understanding of the word “polite”, has managed to knock your fragile ego to the extent that you’ve gone to the petty stages of mere insults, and is STILL being ignored. You’re really not listening to what I was trying to say. The layout is not the main problem. My “ideals” on what should appear on page one is not the most important issue. The problem here is your vanity, your conceit, and your comfortable position high on the smug pedestal of established elite.”

23-Jun-2011 18:06:04 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 18:22:08 by Englishkid62

Forums

~~The Priceless~~

The Priceless