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Westenev

Westenev

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Own Amnesty said :
Westenev said :
Uninformed genders aren't the problem, it's the media hype that bothers me. Being praised for being woke is almost the same as saying "nobody will care about this show after the pilot airs".


Where do you see media hype? A google search for "cowboy bebop non binary" will return articles like "Cowboy Bebop Casts Non Binary Actor" (some being disingenuous by implying the character wasn't written that way) and hundreds of mad nerds screaming in the comments. I think people blow this kind of stuff out of proportion - not saying you're doing this, personally - and then the social media echo chamber turns it into way more than it actually is. People love to get mad, after all.

Netflix does have a poor track record for adaptations, but the original writer of Cowboy Bebop is serving as a consultant, so if fans are going to be mad - myself included - they can be mad at him.


If I google search "cowboy beebop live adaption", and only come up with articles regarding a characters non conforming gender identity... well, I just think the attention is in the wrong place. Before we start heralding lgbti champions, let's try selling the show a bit, y'know?

Regarding the creator and netflix adaptions, the creators of Avatar semi-recently left their live action project due to a lack of creative freedom. So I'd personally point my finger at netflix if things go south.
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22-Nov-2020 21:33:57

Own Amnesty

Own Amnesty

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It probably looks like I'm being a stickler at this point, but seriously - I just did a search for both "cowboy bebop live adaptation" and "cowboy beebop live adaptation" (just in case) and only three of the twelve results for "bebop" and none of the ten for "beebop" made mention of the non-binary cast member in their title.

If it really was every article or a majority of them, maybe there would be a point to be made about biased reporting or another Disney Big Gay Moment. As it stands, I don't think so.

People aren't mad about characters who were White, Asian, or of ambiguous race in the anime being portrayed by Black actors in the live adaptation. Gender identity is a hot button topic right now and people are blowing up about it. If it's a big deal to you, it's a big deal to you, but the media bias doesn't seem to be there. And nobody is writing articles speculating on how good the show is going to be - they don't, generally - so I don't think that's a fair comparison to make.
Joe? It's your post on Hard Times.

22-Nov-2020 22:20:43

YuBiusk Ink

YuBiusk Ink

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Honestly, media goes where the clicks are, and rageclicks are just more clicks. I don't think it's even about praising the show so much as pointing out, "Hey, this show has a nonbinary character, what do you think of that? That's pretty unusual." Like I said, it's newsworthy when trans rep is still so rare.

22-Nov-2020 22:34:10

Own Amnesty

Own Amnesty

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Very true.

And there's no such thing as bad publicity, so Netflix is coming out ahead on this one no matter what. People will probably watch the show just to get mad about it. Hell, that's why I watch Cops .
Joe? It's your post on Hard Times.

22-Nov-2020 22:51:13

Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

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West, p3342
XD np, I take back my suggestion of calling you Princess Kiki. My own nickname can still be C.C. as it doesn’t bother me.

OK, Funimation, Crunchyroll or Netflix, I never heard of the first two so I’ll keep that in mind!


Own, p3342
I heard of Cowboy Bebop in this thread I think last year, I will keep that in mind.


West and Own Amnesty, p3342, next posts
Regarding non-binary themes, that’s best left to non-binary artists to create wholly. I prefer content to be faithful to the original material because that’s the creator’s genuine artistry, as Own alluded to (I’ve never seen the original anime or its ideas so I’m presumptuous).
Inserting other ideas isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s like non-binary people are forced to insert their ideas into full-scale projects they didn’t necessarily start, when full-scale projects to be started is what they should be doing! You can’t make a full-scale art movement/change/impact unless you dedicate your whole life to a newly created idea, something that can’t be fully achieved with insertion or politics.


Yeah, I grew up with 90s anime so that’s just what I’m used to! Sorcerous Stabber Orphen was not overly detailed nor popular but I really liked the world-building. The story appeared to be pre-First World War, had magic, ancient machines, and an overall light-hearted adventurous style with a few mature jokes and swearing here and there, something you never see in kids’ shows anymore. The children also sounded like children, something that doesn’t seem to happen anymore, either (high-pitched squirrel voices kinda irritate me). Still, I’d like to check out the recent reboot anyways, see what new clues I can stumble upon.


But yeah, lots of people blow things out of proportion especially in social media. People need to understand we can’t always have things one way or our way, real life is more complicated than that,

If the original writer of Cowboy Bebop is involved, I think that’s a great step!

23-Nov-2020 00:33:49 - Last edited on 23-Nov-2020 00:35:28 by Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

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P3343
And then there’s lack of creative freedom common in corporate projects XD the problem is that there’s too much focus on ‘do dis too maek moar monnee!’ and what corporate entities don’t realize is that, in the long term, the goal is to create a loyal fanbase who support you and your products. Short-term, max profits aren’t everything, people forget profits sooner than art. This is why concept art of HR Giger for ALIEN remains iconic, because he wasn’t motivated by politics or profits, he created the art genuinely and it remains popular and cool--even though the franchise has seen better days.

But yes, non-binary characters are still rare in media, there’s no problem having them, so long as they are written well or sourced from an actual non-binary individual to maximise relatability. Art needs to be relatable and emotional, after all.

23-Nov-2020 00:34:01

YuBiusk Ink

YuBiusk Ink

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Azi Demonica said :
P3343
And then there’s lack of creative freedom common in corporate projects XD the problem is that there’s too much focus on ‘do dis too maek moar monnee!’ and what corporate entities don’t realize is that, in the long term, the goal is to create a loyal fanbase who support you and your products.

That might be better for art, but it's not better for investors. The reality of it is that capitalism as an economic system just isn't really designed to let creators make the works of art they want to. As Michael Eisner put it, "We have no obligation to make history. We have no obligation to make art. We have no obligation to make a statement. To make money is our only objective." That's why Disney has made bank putting out live-action remakes every year—safe, non-risky investments are what capitalism rewards most consistently. You can't blame a corporation for following the rules it's been given.

This is also why all the representation seems to be appearing in existing works (though Amnesty has already explained why this isn't "insertion&quot ;) . There just aren't a lot of original works being released, since it's a riskier bet for investors.

Original message details are unavailable.
But yes, non-binary characters are still rare in media, there’s no problem having them, so long as they are written well or sourced from an actual non-binary individual to maximise relatability.
Yeah, that's... gonna backfire as a standard really, really quickly, for about a half-dozen reasons off the top of my head. It's a good way to basically eliminate most minority representation in media, especially in Hollywood. I'm not saying I want a bunch of cis people trying to tell stories about what it means to be nonbinary, but that's very different from just writing diverse casts. Well-intended as it might be, this standard is self-defeating.

(In this case, since a nonbinary actor was hired for the part, it's moot.)

23-Nov-2020 01:15:11

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