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NotFishing

NotFishing

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Westenev said :
The Gravemind would be indoctorinated before it could be fully formed, and that's even assuming it could find the biomass to finish itself.

You're assuming that Gravemind isn't already fully formed. And you're also assuming that it can be indoctrinated. The Gravemind is the culmination of billions if not trillions of minds being merged into one collective consciousness. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

10-Jun-2017 23:57:55

Inferi

Inferi

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And it seems to me that every single one of those minds could become indoctrinated, even after being formed. Just because it's a collective consciousness doesn't mean it would be immune to efffects like that. Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

11-Jun-2017 00:07:11

Westenev

Westenev

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Having a number of minds grants resilience, not immunity. There is a hive mind “zerg” race called the Rachnai in the Mass Effect universe - while the fully formed queen could retain her mind after weeks of reaper tech exposure, the cloned queen could not. Neither could control their spawn of their own will in that scenario.
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11-Jun-2017 00:14:25

NotFishing

NotFishing

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Inferi said :
And it seems to me that every single one of those minds could become indoctrinated, even after being formed. Just because it's a collective consciousness doesn't mean it would be immune to efffects like that.

It all merges into one extremely powerful mind. I'd also like to point out that the Flood were created from Precursor DNA, a race that is older and more advanced than even the Forerunners (the race that could build planets and create weapons which could destroy the Galaxy with the push of a button.) What good that would have on the Reapers, I don't know, but it has to be worth something.

Why can't the Gravemind's Logic Plague counter the Reaper's Indoctrination?

Anyways, we can't say for sure if one side would be able to control the other, because the two species have never encountered each other and it is two completely separate universes. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

11-Jun-2017 00:37:28 - Last edited on 11-Jun-2017 00:41:44 by NotFishing

Inferi

Inferi

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From what we know lore-wise, both have the ability to cancel out the other. It's not really a situation of one entity winning, since they both have the ability to control the other, leading to a cycle of them being cancelled out when nobody has the ability to make a conscious decision anymore. Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

11-Jun-2017 00:42:23

Westenev

Westenev

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Because you're saying that one said can produce an unreasonable argument while the other side is meddling with their thought processes.

I just don't find it justifiable to consider it a draw.



EDIT: Mass Effect fields and Dead Zones are very similar, at least, in my opinion. If you wanted a plausable direct counter, I think the Necromorphs would be the way to go.
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11-Jun-2017 01:21:42 - Last edited on 11-Jun-2017 01:29:10 by Westenev

NotFishing

NotFishing

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Westenev said :
Because you're saying that one said can produce an unreasonable argument while the other side is meddling with their thought processes.

I just don't find it justifiable to consider it a draw.

It's more than just an unreasonable argument. The Gravemind figures out their reasoning, and then immediately finds a way to counter it or appeal to it. How do you know he can't use the Logic Plague to simply make the Reaper stop meddling with his mind? How can the Reapers meddle with his mind when he probably has as much thought processing power as the Reapers themselves, if not more?

You're assuming that the Gravemind is automatically inferior when you have no basis for that, since the two species have never met. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

11-Jun-2017 01:28:47

Westenev

Westenev

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NotFishing said :
You're assuming that the Gravemind is automatically inferior when you have no basis for that, since the two species have never met.

Apples and Oranges argument. Boring.

All I'm saying is that, under the scenario the flood decides to waltz onto a reaper vessel, it would likely get indoctrinated and lose control of its flood... and in a drawn out fight, the flood would eventually lose.

If we talk in terms of production - the Reapers can study and manufacture. The flood just use.

So the idea of a creature that took weeks to talk Cortana into submission persisting to sing the same tune to a Reaper after several weeks? It seems unlikely.

And if everything truly went to hell, the Reapers would just flee into Dark Space (or modify the crucible to act like a Halo, distributed by the Mass Relays).

Based on these three points, I don't believe a flood infestation poses any true threat to the Reapers directly. BUT, circumstances might change if we include other parties.
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11-Jun-2017 01:39:40 - Last edited on 11-Jun-2017 01:44:22 by Westenev

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