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Inferi

Inferi

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So, because Fish is doing a better job at pointing out all the stuff than I haven been (and thank you for that. Seriously, I really appreciate it) I'd like to try and explain why I'm so irritated and what I feel you're doing wrong.

So, my main issue is, as I have stated, that it feels as though you are plot-jacking. I thought I'd said something about this (or at least something talking about what's causing this) in the past, but since I guess I either haven't or it wasn't clear I want to try again. What I'm referring to when I say this is something large happening that wrests control from what was going on into the hands of the person who just posted. This is, as has been the case here and on ItF, typically in the form of something too strong to be ignored appearing and causing a huge change in the dynamic of what is going on. It makes it so that whatever was going to happen, whatever the TM had planned, cannot happen as it is supposed to, and sidetracks the cast in the direction of the specific event due to the fact that they cannot ignore it.

Now, your argument here for as to why you are doing nothing wrong is because you have permission to do whatever you want to "help" the cast. I want to address this separately, because I feel as though you have a different idea of the way roleplays typically go than most people here do. I don't know if you've played D&D at all, and if you have it makes it easier for me, but I'll go through my explanation just in case you (or anyone else reading this that wants to analyze it) have not. The dynamic of both mediums is very similar, and I would argue nearly identical. There's a single person that controls the world, the environment, and the story, who is the DM, TM, GM...whatever two letters you wish to use for them. Then, separate from them, are the players, those that exist in the world but do not control any aspects of the world itself. Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

20-Jan-2017 16:28:19

Inferi

Inferi

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Instead, they drive their half of the story by taking the characters that they have, characters which have been approved by the individual in charge, and reacting to what the world throws at them. They do not have any control outside of their individual characters, but how they use those characters is as impactful, if not more so, to the party than what the world itself does.

The problem is, not all characters fit a setting, and if they don't it ends up being world-breaking. I'll use a D&D example here, because it's the best way I have to describe it. Say there's a party of 4 people: all of them are level 3, and all are basic, core classes. At this point, a CR (challenge rating) of 3 would mean that any one of the party members should be able to solo it, albeit with a 50% chance of losing. That means, with all of them there, they should be able to take something like that without a problem. Now, if the enemy is CR 10, a level 3 party should get crushed by it. That's something like a massive boss fight that isn't supposed to be tackled yet, or something that they need to use some other method to get past.

Now, imagine if the level 3 party suddenly gets a level 11 ally. Everything that they might have had to think about or use some kind of tactical thinking to get past is now void as their level 11 ally blows up everything in their way. It takes any concept of story and balance and throws it out the window, forcing the person in charge to compensate for it. The problem is, you can't effectively do so, since the ally is too strong for anything to be thrown their way that won't immediately kill the party.

Conversely, should the level 3 party suddenly have that same ally appear in front of them, but this time as an enemy that they cannot ignore, there's nothing that they can do. They will be stuck in a situation where they can either ally with the much stronger individual or perish, because there is no middle ground when you are so vastly overpowered. Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

20-Jan-2017 16:28:29

Inferi

Inferi

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I am aware that my example was mostly a mechanical one, but I feel as though the concept still applies in the situation I am attempting to talk about. The appearance of something that is both out of place among the current cast and stronger than anything around currently throws everything into chaos, and puts someone other than the one in control of the world in control.

That's the issue here, what I am having so much trouble with. I don't really care about your two characters. I feel they're a bit over the top, but that's not my place to make the judgment and therefore I will not. What I care about is, as you put it, your "Laser Beaming" of the situation. You, someone who is not supposed to have control of the world, is placing things in the world when it has not been established by the one who created it that such things exist in such a capacity.

Let me please be clear: My issue is with you acting as though you are a TM, and not a player. My issue is with you controlling scenes with NPC creations that you should not have the authority to create. My issue is with you making it feel as though everyone else in the thread is insignificant.

My reasoning for this was outlined above. I did my best to keep it civil, and although I do not apologize for my argument I do apologize if it was not spoken in a civil manner.

Thank you. Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

20-Jan-2017 16:29:23

NotFishing

NotFishing

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Another thing I'd like to add to Inferi's argument:

Not only does it break the mechanics of the game, but it also affects it negatively from a narrative standpoint.

You're trying so hard to make unique special snowflake characters, but you have ended up making them so unique that they all look glaringly out of place compared to everyone else, and in doing so detract from the uniqueness of the characters around them at the same time.

I can't help but be reminded of a thread called Legend of the Crown, where shortly before I left everyone was introducing overpowered characters, bringing in Demons, Angels, and other creatures that were never previously mentioned in the lore. They ended up overshadowing the original plot, which was simply a political struggle between five noble houses and the true heir to the throne, and I promptly lost interest because my characters ended up appearing bland and generic in comparison despite all the effort I put into them.

Imagine if in Lord of the Rings, Tolkien decided it would be a great idea to have a 9 foot tall purple skinned giant with superhuman strength and a giant battle-axe accompany the Hobbits into Mordor, simply because he felt that two hobbits sneaking into Mordor alone would be too difficult. That completely shifts the dynamic of their quest.

Originally, it was two weak, small, frail individuals armed only with their wits, a handful of moderately useful magical artifacts, and an untrustworthy guide, on a stealth mission to infiltrate the most secure location in Middle Earth and bring the most powerful artifact right to the Big Bad's doorstep so they can destroy it.

But with this giant I mentioned, it instead turns into two weak, small, frail individuals following a giant who pummels everything in his path, letting him do most of the work until they get to where they need to be. They might as well just give the ring to the giant and head back to the Shire, because there's no longer a reason for them to be there. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

20-Jan-2017 17:41:18 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2017 17:54:05 by NotFishing

Inferi

Inferi

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NotFishing said :

I can't help but be reminded of a thread called Legend of the Crown, where shortly before I left everyone was introducing overpowered characters, bringing in Demons, Angels, and other creatures that were never previously mentioned in the lore. They ended up overshadowing the original plot, which was simply a political struggle between five noble houses and the true heir to the throne, and I promptly lost interest because my characters ended up appearing bland and generic in comparison despite all the effort I put into them.


Dammit, Fish...why do you have to remind us all of the tragedy Pickle vanishing was...

Although that is a good example. Sad, too...one of my favorite characters was my original one on there. Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

20-Jan-2017 17:56:13

NotFishing

NotFishing

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My fondest memory of that thread is actually a discussion that occurred Out of Character, when I implied that one of my characters would arrange an 'unfortunate accident' for one of Maddy Blue's characters. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

20-Jan-2017 18:03:18 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2017 18:04:37 by NotFishing

Inferi

Inferi

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I never actually got to get too far with my character. We pretty much ended in the bar, right after she got drunk (I think...and if so, because her father had just been killed) and then tried to absorb damage from someone, which backfired about the way one would expect.

That was also when NarBloodwolf started calling down apocalyptic fire storms, and everything else went to shit from there.

I want somewhere that is actually conducive to playing a pacifist healer again... Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

20-Jan-2017 18:05:07 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2017 18:06:58 by Inferi

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