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Dev Blog: Abyssal Weapons

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Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

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BHBoost Dave said :
The Abyssal Bludgeon

+102 Crush
+85 Strength

While this upon first glance may seem like a balanced weapon, it is not; there is more than meets the eye. Let's take a look, shall we?

Max Hit
(All hits calculated using 99 Strength, 99 Prayer, Piety, and maximum gear):
Abyssal whip: 48
Abyssal bludgeon: 48, 77 (with 98 prayer points missing and using Piety)

While this may look like a decent weapon, remember that:
- it is two-handed
- it requires 70 Attack and Strength
- most players realistically don't sit at low Prayer points in dangerous combat

My Point
The abyssal bludgeon is far inferior to the preferred weapon of choice, the abyssal whip. Even the scimitar speed of the bludgeon doesn't make up for the fact that the superior Saradomin sword and its Tear upgrade exists. If it had a much higher strength bonus (since it requires 70 Strength), it would work.

The Abyssal Dagger

+75 Stab
+75 Strength

There is not much good to say about this weapon. Let's go over it, shall we?

Max Hit
Abyssal whip: 48
Abyssal dagger: 47, 40-40 (with the 15% damage reduction)
Dragon dagger: 45-45

My Point
Obviously the dagger is a more accurate alternative to the dragon dagger, however it is severely lacking. The dragon dagger has a far superior max hit, albeit less accurate. Not to mention that the abyssal dagger takes 50 % special attack power compared to 25%. Its proposed special attack falls so short that it could be a gnome and with its requirements, it's not exactly a great weapon for the main hand either.

Final Point

Simple maths and play-testing immediately render these weapons inferior to current weapons. It is unwise to create under-powered content simply because of the fear of creating a "best-in-slot" item. A deep analysis of the effect these items wi

12-Jun-2015 07:02:53

Plonster
Dec Member 2019

Plonster

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I really don't understand how players think these sound lame. The dagger may not be the most original idea from the wood works but the bludgeon sounds intense to add something new to pking. I find the idea fun that you can be able to use a dharoks powered weapon with whatever other armour and c*it big with it. The fact the weapon works off a prayer tick instead of hp too is really nice because that way the opponent can't predict what the other players prayer is at. Like dharoks it is nice seeing big combos but long are the days seeing the hp tick go low and then thinking oh here it comes! Clan Defy -
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12-Jun-2015 13:06:10

Plonster
Dec Member 2019

Plonster

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The only minor niggle with the bludgeon vs dharoks is that dharoks is a good risk and reward for the player vs player. Where as the bludgeon been a one item will most likely be a more popular weapon of choice for rune pures going up against dharokers to provide some sort of relief hitting through dharoks since dharoks has the lowest mellee defence on crush attacks with +234. Clan Defy -
Rank [Smiter]

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12-Jun-2015 13:06:12 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2015 13:17:31 by Plonster

KungFuGarden

KungFuGarden

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In terms of PVP I think people may be a bit disappointed. It's hard to say. The dagger is going to be quite a bit more accurate than the DD. The first hit is probably going to land a lot with that +75 stab.

It will be awesome for PVM and Slayer. Its max hit is only one less than the whip, with a pretty good spec. It will serve as a good main hand weapon that can train strength using stab that can also hit hard with the spec. I'm sorta worried about Hasta honestly, but maybe those slightly higher stats will prevent it from crashing too hard.

Same goes for bludgeon. In PVP low prayer is a smite or pray drop risk, but the brave and skilled may get lucky. I can see why PKers may be unhappy.

In PVM it'd be great. Prayer flicking at low prayer would be do-able and fun. I already prayer flick all of my tasks and near the end (since I'm not very good) I'm just scraping by, sitting at 1-4 prayer the last 20 kills in the task.



You can't be all things to all people. That said, you did excite our PKers by saying it would be nice if one of these weapons were worthy of the wilderness. Giving them at least that 50% accuracy boost on the dagger I think is a fair compromise and would not be unbalanced.

I wonder if a .35-.4 percentile for the bludgeon spec would be more incentive for PKers to train that prayer and risk that smite. The good thing is, at least you know when smite is active, but now how low your opponents prayer is. That in itself could make it viable.

12-Jun-2015 15:15:43 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2015 15:18:35 by KungFuGarden

BHBoost Dave

BHBoost Dave

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2H Crush Weapons Compared to the Abyssal Bludgeon


Tzhaar-ket-om
+
80 Crush

+
85 Strength


Granite maul
+
81 Crush

+
79 Strength


Barrelchest anchor
+
92 Crush

+
100 Strength


Dharok's greataxe
+
95 Crush

+
105 Strength



Reviewing


Reviewing this overnight has led me to believe the bludgeon is actually going to be a great special attack weapon, and will offer some great opportunities for PvP, aside from the obvious issue of one-itemers. As a mainhand weapon, however, it still falls short. I believe the community (and the team) are afraid of introducing a weapon stronger than the whip as a mainhand weapon. But with the launch of Zeah coming within the next year or so, strong weapons are going to be needed. Besides, we need versatility in the game.

Dharok's Greataxe vs. Abyssal Bludgeon


Dharok's greataxe (without set)
Max hit : 53
Abyssal bludgeon
Max hit : 48
Abyssal whip
Max hit : 48

The issues I see here are a fear of surpassing old weapons. Why is a 2H weapon with the same requirements as the DH axe weaker than it? Why is it weaker than a one-handed weapon with less requirements?

My Idea

The proposed idea I have is to decrease the speed of the bludgeon, increase its bonuses, and keep the special attack. It would look something like this:

The Abyssal Bludgeon
+102 Strength
+102 Crush
Speed: 5 (3.0 secs)
Special max: 81

This puts the bludgeon at almost 4 points higher of a max hit than the whip, while being just a tick slower. It also increases the max hit of the special attack from 77 to 81, just 2 points below the AGS max. A fair trade.

12-Jun-2015 20:01:49

Gellinhead
Oct Member 2019

Gellinhead

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Honestly if you think this new dagger is going to be weaker then the DD the you are delusional.
everyone seems to love factoring in the MAX hit of the two and judging it on that. Adding in the second GUARANTEED hit will make this weapon incredibly viable as most people aren't speccing to hit a 40-40 ko anyway. Using this weapons spec at the proper timing would be absolutely devastating. Basically the way i see it is its like hitting twice with a dscim with a potentially guaranteed second hit. all in all a viable weapon for pvp use.

EDIT

also a viable main hand weapon so no special switching. element of surprise and usability +++

13-Jun-2015 01:55:10 - Last edited on 13-Jun-2015 01:59:26 by Gellinhead

KungFuGarden

KungFuGarden

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Gellinhead said :
Honestly if you think this new dagger is going to be weaker then the DD the you are delusional.
everyone seems to love factoring in the MAX hit of the two and judging it on that. Adding in the second GUARANTEED hit will make this weapon incredibly viable as most people aren't speccing to hit a 40-40 ko anyway. Using this weapons spec at the proper timing would be absolutely devastating. Basically the way i see it is its like hitting twice with a dscim with a potentially guaranteed second hit. all in all a viable weapon for pvp use.

EDIT

also a viable main hand weapon so no special switching. element of surprise and usability +++

This

13-Jun-2015 15:12:22

Ferocire

Ferocire

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My World Now, I believe many understands why the 15% damage reduction is in place. That is why they are only asking for a accuracy increase.

The thing is though, it is more like a minimal hit that triggers if the first attack hits. The second hit will still have its own miss/hit calculation if I understand it correctly. The only difference is that instead of hitting 0, it'll hit a minimal of 1 instead.

Without a accuracy boost of some type, this does make the dagger weak against higher levels as it will mostly hit 0, 0s for days. Even from the perspective of a person who strongly opposes melee updates due to how much content they already have, even I understand that this dagger needs a accuracy boost of some kind to make it viable.

The damage is fine, but the "all hit or none do" mechanic is useless if the weapon doesn't have enough accuracy to hit to begin with.

Against 99defense +super def+steel skin with a stab defense of only 200, the weapon would only have a hit chance of ~30%.

Against 70def + super def + piety with a stab defense of ~231, the weapon would have a hit chance of ~31%.

The accuracy isn't that bad, but for a 50% drain special, it is still low. I now believe Ronan was right about a 50% boost being overpowered. Looks like it only needs somewhere around a 10-15% boost OR reduce the spec drain to enable 3 specials. Either would make it viable imo.

EDIT: Then again, if this weapon really is intended to be used as a primary weapon , then the special doesn't need to be that strong. A weapon shouldn't be good for everything. Same case with the bludgeon.
OSRS Mage Tank.


Believe magic to only be for support? Think again. It's just as valid of a Pking style as melee and range is.

13-Jun-2015 19:11:38 - Last edited on 13-Jun-2015 19:44:06 by Ferocire

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