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RE: Treasure Hunter & RunePass

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Mexk
Aug
fmod Member
2006

Mexk

Forum Moderator Posts: 19,606 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi –

I was ambivalent as to whether or not I should write and submit this thread, but the truth of the matter is that RuneScape matters to me, and I wish to see the game flourish for many years to come. At its current rate, however, RuneScape is heading for the history books. You have requested constructive feedback on monetisation in the past, and this is my attempt at providing some now.

I have been playing since 2004, been a member since 2006, and am actively playing on several accounts on both OSRS and RS3. I have been maxed for years, have several 200Ms, and am deeply involved with the community both as a player and as a volunteer across virtually every platform you officially support. And there are many like me.

It is perhaps for this very reason so excruciatingly disheartening to continuously feel as though we as players are merely considered part of an equation exclusively seeking to enlarge the elusive number on your bottom line as much as possible. It is furthermore beyond disappointing to witness promises to do better, communicate more, and reduce the bombardment of promotions, only to see those very promises being broken and have the cycle repeat itself time and time again following yet another overpowered promotion.

I need to accentuate that I very much know and understand how you as individuals, especially those of you who actually play yourselves, have the best intentions at heart and do not necessarily consider our wallets more important than us as players, but the actions of Jagex at large speak volume and really only leave that one interpretation – and it stings.

In this regard, I think the one thing I and many others are missing the most is honesty and transparency. Tell us why you are doing what you do in regards to monetisation as opposed to keeping us in the dark. If RunePass, for instance, really is an experiment to potentially replace Treasure Hunter entirely, why is it not presented as such?

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Mexk
•.,¸

Stand up for what is right, even if you stand alone
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.............................
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04-Jul-2018 20:03:46 - Last edited on 04-Jul-2018 20:05:31 by Mexk

Mexk
Aug
fmod Member
2006

Mexk

Forum Moderator Posts: 19,606 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
..]

Why is it presented as a seventh monetisation model alongside talks of double keys and a new iteration of Treasure Hunter (which unsurprisingly, by the way, suggests nothing but an even more intense bombardment of overpowered, experience-focused promotions ready to milk the fast declining player-base)?

Telling us what you want to do, what you hope to achieve, and the reasons for your decisions in regards to monetisation promotes a sense of transparency – something which is both greatly appreciated, and desperately needed. If you are unable to deliver something, tell us, and tell us why. Saying or promising one thing only to turn around and do something else entirely is arguably one of the most harmful things you can do as it achieves nothing but erode trust. It does not matter if it happens the day after, week after, or month after. It stings just as much. I appreciate the irony of requesting something you have promised to do repeatedly, but perhaps this time the message will be heard and understood.

The dev blog and subsequent Q/A livestream the other day especially are both good and solid steps in a direction towards greater transparency – and whilst the J-Mods participating in the stream were visibly anxious and uncomfortable given the subject, know that your efforts are appreciated. However, if statements made on a livestream are not fulfilled, or followed up on accordingly, it will inherently only impact the discourse negatively. This applies to acknowledging our feedback, too – the very feedback you have requested.

Scrolling through both Reddit and the forums, there are mountains of constructive feedback, but barely any responses nor mere acknowledgements. We have no idea whether you are noting these things, we have no idea if you agree, we have no idea if you already have these things on your table; all we see are promotions and updates suggesting our threads, tweets, posts, and comments at best have been dismissed.

[..
¸,.•
Mexk
•.,¸

Stand up for what is right, even if you stand alone
¨`'°«„¸¸„»°'
.............................
'°«„¸¸„»°'´¨

04-Jul-2018 20:04:04 - Last edited on 04-Jul-2018 20:14:26 by Mexk

Mexk
Aug
fmod Member
2006

Mexk

Forum Moderator Posts: 19,606 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
..]

Monetisation is inarguably a controversial topic, so why not take every opportunity possible to actively gather feedback from the loyal players you have? Why does it feel as though feedback is only really acknowledged and encouraged following an outcry, and why does it feel like it barely changes anything even then? At the end of the day, we are in this together, so let us work together!

I can only imagine sitting on the receiving end of these outcries, and I appreciate your willingness to listen. However, I think the fact that there is an outcry in the first place, and that they continue to occur, unequivocally means two things: (a) you have an extremely dedicated and loyal community, (b) you continue to erode the trust of that very community by milking it and breaking promises.

So, in short, the absolute most important thing before I even get to any of the specific monetisation models is prioritising communication and actually sticking with it. It need not be hard. Just be honest with us. Speak, and we will listen. Encourage us to give feedback and actually work with us actively to implement it – just like the Mining and Smithing rework. In fact, you only really need to look to OSRS to see why this in general is a tremendously successful approach.

As for the monetisation models and RunePass specifically: I think it needs to be highlighted how at this point in time, RuneScape is effectively bloated with monetisation in every conceivable manner. We pay to play. We can buy gold. We can buy experience. We can buy cosmetics. We can buy presets. We can buy action bars. We can buy analytics. We can buy tiered membership packages. We can buy… and so on so forth. I appreciate that the keyword is can, but when you are playing a MMORPG, choices of other players inarguably affect you as well, be it directly or indirectly, even if you religiously distance yourself from any and all carefully catered promotion. RunePass would seemingly be an addition to all this.

[..
¸,.•
Mexk
•.,¸

Stand up for what is right, even if you stand alone
¨`'°«„¸¸„»°'
.............................
'°«„¸¸„»°'´¨

04-Jul-2018 20:04:20 - Last edited on 04-Jul-2018 20:16:43 by Mexk

Mexk
Aug
fmod Member
2006

Mexk

Forum Moderator Posts: 19,606 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
..]

Think about that for a minute – am I playing one of the oldest and most expansive MMORPGs still around, or am I taking my wallet for a walk?

I appreciate the talks about RunePass potentially replacing Treasure Hunter, and most definitely support that change, but I need to see action beyond words of intent. Furthermore, if RunePass really is an experiment to potentially replace Treasure Hunter, how come you are not disabling Treasure Hunter for a mere fortnight and inform us accordingly? In that regard, much like how the frankly bizarre justification for Squeal of Fortune was high engagement, please remember that correlation need not imply causation, and that anyone will accept free experience and rewards when presented with them. Thus, gathering experience is not equivalent to supporting RunePass as otherwise suggested on the stream – just as using your daily keys is not equivalent to supporting Treasure Hunter. Both, however, are conceptually equivalent to picking up a $10 note if you see one on your walk.

RunePass itself is a great idea since it is far less intrusive and provides a prime opportunity to highlight various aspects of the game (which can even be personalised to the individual player depending on skill level and quest progression), but I am perplexed as to the number of things you yourself mentioned you could be doing with it, but have chosen not to do for the trial. Respectfully, if you wish to really engage people and gauge its success, surely what should be evaluated is not what ultimately is a shadow of itself?

As for the rest of the monetisation models. Overall I find that there are way too many, and too many of them are intrusive, if not straight up obnoxious, and otherwise provide a distinct in-game advantage. Neither is good for the long-term health of the game, and I appreciate the small hint of acknowledgement in this regard given on the aforementioned livestream.

[..
¸,.•
Mexk
•.,¸

Stand up for what is right, even if you stand alone
¨`'°«„¸¸„»°'
.............................
'°«„¸¸„»°'´¨

04-Jul-2018 20:04:42 - Last edited on 04-Jul-2018 20:22:49 by Mexk

Mexk
Aug
fmod Member
2006

Mexk

Forum Moderator Posts: 19,606 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
..]

This thread is already far too long, so I will keep it short:

Action bars and presets ; strongly consider offering more for free and otherwise reduce the price of the rest – they are currently extremely expensive (especially for something virtually required at high-end content, which is what the majority of new updates have catered to).

Bonds ; keep them as is – what they do to combat RWT is great, and the extra players who are now able to enjoy membership is equally great. Bonds are furthermore anything but obnoxious and intrusive, which is an added bonus. Consider changing key-option for tier-option on RunePass, though.

Solomon’s General Store is a good way of handling cosmetics, but it needs a serious overhaul. I would be wary of placing too many obnoxious items on the store (Achievement Banner, Drakes, and thus forth). Why does stuff like hairstyles, eye effects, and retro overrides feel abandoned? Skilling and walking animations are great, same with emotes.

I was flummoxed when RuneMetrics and the wealth evaluator were released with a price tag, but considering neither are intrusive nor damaging to the long-term health of the game, I have no issues with these being present. I would in fact consider giving players free trials on a biannually or similar basis; doing so would probably boost sales.

[..
¸,.•
Mexk
•.,¸

Stand up for what is right, even if you stand alone
¨`'°«„¸¸„»°'
.............................
'°«„¸¸„»°'´¨

04-Jul-2018 20:05:02 - Last edited on 04-Jul-2018 22:26:22 by Mexk

Mexk
Aug
fmod Member
2006

Mexk

Forum Moderator Posts: 19,606 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
..]

Treasure Hunter ; remove it, please. All of it. I have never encountered such an intrusive and damaging piece of content introduced to a game with such complete disregard of any long-term consequences, ever. I regret the few times I have participated in a promotion, though I appreciate the times it has had a cosmetic focus.

I cannot tell if I feel this way this strongly because I have been bombarded daily for years, if half the frontpage tends to be Treasure Hunter promotions, or because I keep getting in-game advertisement for it, but jeez, too much, too frequent, too overpowered, and zero gameplay value. The Treasure Hunter exclusive items could easily be ported to a reward bag, or as a rare drop from a reward bag, from completing RunePass at Tier X.

In general, please figure out what you actually want to sell and then work with us to find an acceptable balance between profitability and non-intrusive, non-destructive content. RunePass could very well be the key to achieving this, but you absolutely need to take on feedback and actually implement it. Communicate, communicate, and communicate.

You can do better, and we are willing to help.

Mexk
¸,.•
Mexk
•.,¸

Stand up for what is right, even if you stand alone
¨`'°«„¸¸„»°'
.............................
'°«„¸¸„»°'´¨

04-Jul-2018 20:05:13 - Last edited on 04-Jul-2018 22:26:45 by Mexk

Mexk
Aug
fmod Member
2006

Mexk

Forum Moderator Posts: 19,606 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Irony.

No support.

Irony?
¸,.•
Mexk
•.,¸

Stand up for what is right, even if you stand alone
¨`'°«„¸¸„»°'
.............................
'°«„¸¸„»°'´¨

04-Jul-2018 20:23:54

Dsctatom
Dec Member 2023

Dsctatom

Posts: 12,987 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I've put up with their obsession with a money first attitude for many years, like most players have, but now they hardly even produce content to mask it. If I didn't have a large stockpile of gp and the option of buying membership with it, I would've been entirely done years ago. Now, I just log in every few days for 10 minutes. Every time there is outrage over what they've done, they say "we're sorry and we'll do better." then follow it up the next week with their newest iterations of 500x dragon chests. They don't care and they will never care again, until the day the game dies.

04-Jul-2018 20:24:04

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