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Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Posts: 76 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
(3/3)
To whoever said ‘TH will not be seen/is not seen as gambling in other countries:

I would suggest reading this short paper on “Are mini-games within RuneScape gambling or gaming”, since by the gambling definition of Great Britain and I quote: “ both ‘Squeal of Fortune’ and ‘Treasure Hunter’ are forms of gambling if purchases to participate are made ”.
Besides that, bonds and items obtained from TH or limited edition items/merchandise, may hold some intrinsic value outside of RuneScape.


To whoever used the ‘Belgium against the world’-argument;
Most of the human race at one point believed the earth was flat, until one ancient Greek mathematician proved them wrong.

Personal note: sadly the flat earth community has been revitalised recently.


TLDR: Treasure Hunter appears to meet the criteria for Gambling
(as set out in section 3 of the Britain Gambling act and the criteria of the Belgian Gambling Act of 7 May 1999- amended by the act of 10 January 2010)

I’m down to discuss this topic!


PS: Interesting read: “Are mini-games within RuneScape gambling or gaming?” Mark D. Griffiths and Rosie King.

23-Aug-2019 20:32:03 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2019 20:58:59 by Torgi Nudho

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Torgi Nudho said :
(1/3) In my humble opinion...


Sorry, the real world doesn't make laws in your or my humble opinions.

The fact is no law says TH is gambling. That's why Jagex is happily providing the entertainment to the general consumers who love to buy their in-game purchases.

In my humble opinion, there should be a cap at capital gain tax just like there is a limit for claiming capital loss too. However, I know both the law and the facts don't side with me. When the facts and the law are all against me... I should smartly know what I can do. :)

23-Aug-2019 21:03:43

Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Posts: 76 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
- I literally quoted two different laws that outline TH as gambling.

But let's just ignore that, right?

- 'In my humble opinion', clearly , did not relate to any law, I am sad you failed to see that.

- Limits for claiming capital loss depends on the country, as a matter of actual fact, in some bilateral agreements a company could even claim a reduction for the capital loss TWICE.

I assume you mean a cap on profits, and not capital (equity), flowing from these certain activities. A cap would not work because: companies could probably just split up into different subsidiaries to avoid the cap + it would limit this industry, which is not the goal of any governement. The goal is to regulate it, not remove it.

A better solution would probably be to tax it at a different rate.

23-Aug-2019 21:08:13 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2019 21:21:08 by Torgi Nudho

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Torgi Nudho said :
- I literally quoted two different laws that outline TH as gambling.

But let's just ignore that, right?

- 'In my humble opinion', clearly , did not relate to any law, I am sad you failed to see that.

- Limits for claiming capital loss depends on the country, as a matter of actual fact, in some bilateral agreements a company could even claim a reduction for the capital loss TWICE.


What law from what countries? Perhaps somebody can help you find out where to report Jagex for gambling to their governments?

23-Aug-2019 21:16:41

Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Posts: 76 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Alright, since you clearly did not even read my entire text.

The law from these countries:

1- 7 MEI 1999. - [Wet op de kansspelen, de weddenschappen, de kansspelinrichtingen en de bescherming van de spelers] <W 2010-01-10/12, art. 2, 008; Inwerkingtreding : 01-01-2011> (Belgium)

2- Gambling Act of 2005 (UK)

23-Aug-2019 21:19:50 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2019 21:23:28 by Torgi Nudho

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Torgi Nudho said :
Alright, since you clearly did not even read my entire text.

The law from these countries:

1- 7 MEI 1999. - [Wet op de kansspelen, de weddenschappen, de kansspelinrichtingen en de bescherming van de spelers] <W 2010-01-10/12, art. 2, 008; Inwerkingtreding : 01-01-2011>

2- Gambling Act of 2005 (UK)


Did you read all the posts in this thread? Belgium never said TH is gambling. They only called out a few companies but not Jagex. UK also explicitly said loot boxes is not gambling at all.

Why didn't anybody report Jagex to the Belgium or Uk governments? Or didn't they actually have done it or failed miserably? :D

23-Aug-2019 21:25:02

Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Posts: 76 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
- "Belgium never said TH is gambling"; wrong.

The country does not need to explicitly state at a given point that a certain transaction is or is not in a certain category. It's literally in the law, that's what it's there for, so they do not have to give their opinion on every single detail.

So, Belgium did not explicitly mention Runescape in their latest open letter, OBVIOUSLY.

It's just ridiculous that you're implying Belgium should literally list every single company active in Belgium, at this point you're just being foolish about it.

- UK's gambling commission stated that loot boxes are a part of social gaming, YET social gaming combined with gambling falls under their own category of gambling. So no matter what excuse you come up with; it is legally classified as gambling.

23-Aug-2019 21:35:18 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2019 21:36:23 by Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Posts: 76 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Back to the 'Belgium never said TH is gambling',

The head chairman, ETIENNE MARIQUE, of the Belgian Gambling Commission used RuneScape as source material in his informative note himself. So I guess, yeah, they actually did mention/use RuneScape as an example or object in their research material.

(Source: KANSSPELEN EN SOCIAL GAMING INFORMATIEVE NOTA, 2017).

23-Aug-2019 21:47:03 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2019 21:51:15 by Torgi Nudho

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Torgi Nudho said :
Torgi Nudho said :
Did you read all the posts in this thread?


I do not have to read any of them, the fact is written law, which you can actually verify yourself, prevails over opinions.


Again, real world governments take real world actions. If you can't accept what real world UK goverment said loot boxes is not gambling it is up to you. If you can't accept the Belgium BGC is being bombarded by evidence of their leaking of information behind the comitte's back as well as being put in the doghouse by the other EU commisions, so be it.

The fact remains TH is not gambling and no real world governments say it is. If you don't agree, you can do what the FTC said: go file a complaint. :)

23-Aug-2019 21:49:46

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