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Zulkir

Zulkir

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Cthris said :
^ that cutscene is kinda fucked though. For one thing they are using language even though Zaros said he never used/had it before meeting mortals. Either he's lying or the cutscene isn't accurate.

I liken it to a story rather than a flashback. It's Zaros' interpretation of events told in a way we can understand. Neither name would likely gave existed before meeting mortals if Zaros is telling the truth.

I'm not sure lying about being able to use language before Infernus would be at all worth lying about really, I'd agree with your idea that it's more tailored so we can understand it instead of a 100% representation of all the small rather unimportant details of how it happened.
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29-Aug-2016 15:45:41

Hazeel

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IIRC that was a memory in regards to Zaros learning language, so he couldn't have lied. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

29-Aug-2016 16:31:04

Ancient Drew

Ancient Drew

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Sepulchre said :
I believe Seren is a play off the word Serene . Given this word and what it means, I'd suspect that Seren was the name she was given by the Elves. It just seems to fit in with the general ideals and the speaking manner of the Elves, a word like Serene. Seren is actually Welsh for 'star', which I think suits her alignment with light. All the elves and their language are derived from Welsh as well, and I think the gnomes had made up their own dialect from the elves' language. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

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29-Aug-2016 16:42:03 - Last edited on 29-Aug-2016 16:42:19 by Ancient Drew

Lord Bhaal

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Well, as Zaros invaded Zamoraks mind before Zamorak impaled him, Zamorak could also see into Zaros' mind.
Judging from ''the empty throne'' we might get a bit more light shed on this, and further explain why Zamorak did what he did, and what Zaros' actual plans are.

I have no doubt that Zamorak is a liberator while Zaros is a lying tyrant, but having it confirmed would certainly be nice.
Strength through Chaos!
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29-Aug-2016 22:00:26 - Last edited on 29-Aug-2016 22:02:49 by Lord Bhaal

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Lord Bhaal said :

I have no doubt that Zamorak is a liberator while Zaros is a lying tyrant, but having it confirmed would certainly be nice.
While I don't disagree with the Zaros thing, calling Zamorak a liberator is kind of inaccurate.... Zamorak seems to enslave people just as much as he does liberate them.

Lets look at some of the things he, and his loyal followers.
-Sparked a civil war by killing a tyrant.
-Sparked an uprising by waging a war against the Cthonians. (This appears to be something he did unwillingly as the memories imply Zamorak was mobbed by the demons, even before he picked up the staff.
-Encouraged a single slave to rebel against Bilrach :/

-His own right hand man Bilrach is one of the biggest slave drivers Gielinor has ever seen. Owning millions of slaves.
-According to the Vampyres he enslaved the werewolves (not sure if canon but its still said ingame)
-According to Mod Jack, the Avernic have created a new society where they still use slaves
-His army has quite a few Cthonians, who quite likely have been enslaved.
-He forced Pehjour into rebelling against Zaros by manipulating him. Not really the actions of someone who values freedom.


Now lets move on to his not so loyal followers, and allies.
-His old allies the Vampyres also had one of the biggest collection of slaves.
-The black knights keep a collection of slaves.


Zamorak is who he always has been, an advocate of power. Whether that power comes from liberating or oppressing people I doubt he cares. Calling him a liberator is silly though.

30-Aug-2016 01:20:33

Dennorak
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@Kastor

I don't know where you're getting the Zamorak went to Infernus unwillingly. He agreed to help them overthrow the Chthonians, and after Zamorak defeated Zaros the Tsutsaroth brought him back to Infernus. Mod Jack on twitter even said part of the reason the demons moved him immediately was to protect him as the area was obviously becoming a hotbed of activity.

While you can argue that many different Zamorakians may use slaves, a lot of your points seem to be either your take on things, or assumptions that we don't know are true.
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30-Aug-2016 02:14:21

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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You're going to tell me that Zamorak, the advocate of seizing power, was perfectly happy to let the demons mob him before he picked up the two most powerful objects in the universe that were lying at his feet....

Whatever floats your boat :P I'm not going to debate this point with you.

Anyways

That's true, quite a few are of my points rely on my own interpretation of events, and if you look at all the other examples of Zamorak liberating things, there is always an ulterior motive, which means that so far all examples of Zamorak liberating things rely on someone else's interpretation of events. So the claim that Zamorak is a liberator has zero hard evidence.

While on the other hand, it is factual that Zamorak's right hand man has a lot of slaves. It's factual that the Black Knights have slaves. It's factual that Zamoraks top general have thousands of undead slaves. It's factual that he allied himself with societies that rely on slaves. It's factual that Iban kept people in cages until their will broke. Its factual that an NPC says that Zamorak enslaved the werewolves.

There is a lot more hard evidence that suggest that Zamorak is an oppressor rather than a liberator.

Edit- its also factual that Zamorak bought a group of goblins from Bandos. Also you forgot to mention that Mod Jack implied that the demons also mobbed him partly because the were worried he wouldn't hold up his side of the bargain.

30-Aug-2016 02:35:00 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 02:50:02 by Cthris

Dennorak
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Dennorak

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I think if you read Zemouregal's memory, Zamorak wasn't exactly in the state to be arguing with them over it at the time. Would he have preferred they grab the artifact? Yes, but that's not exactly the same point as saying he "went to Infernus unwillingly".

I personally don't think Zamorak is much of a liberator so to speak. I think he doesn't really want to personally effect whether a society uses slaves or not as he is more concerned with the progress of that society. If the society is stagnating, he would like to see it progress. I've always felt he's used a more hands off approach on the exact details of the society beyond that.
Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

30-Aug-2016 02:48:37

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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@ Noct

It's confirmed that Zamorak never enslaved the werewolves. It's just mentioned by Copernicus Glyph in-game. I believe it was also mentioned by a vampyre at some point, but I don't recall who.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

30-Aug-2016 03:08:03

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