RuneScape Forum Archive | Let's Divide the Years by 10

Hazeel

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The problem is, this is trying to limit things to a human perspective....except humans aren't the main players in these wars, humans are insignificant. This is a God's world and we're just living in it.

...Of course that also includes Demons, Icyene, Vyes, Mahjarrat, and other creatures that can actually hold their own. Very very few humans can compare. The rest of them, civillian and soldier, are mere ants. These races easily live to be thousands of years old. A two thousand year war is average to them. A four thousand year war is "a bit longer than usual". Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

19-Jul-2016 09:11:01 - Last edited on 19-Jul-2016 09:11:18 by Hazeel

Jan

2009

Voya

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If Age lengths were changed like this, I think Gielinor would be way too young and many events way too recent. Most of the events before Fourth Age are unknown to (most) humans, which at the moment makes sense considering how long ago they took place. If all those major events happened just a few hundred years ago, they should have more information on those time periods.

And regarding God Wars, it wasn't just one war - it consisted of multiple wars between various immortal beings with extremely long lifespans. It wasn't just one big battle, and they can't be compared to human wars. "God Wars" is just a name of a time period, and there likely were many calmer times between its various wars.

As for Fifth Age, I think that it could have been considered as a part of Fourth Age. I just think that humans (proud of their new position as the dominant species) named it slightly too early to their name (Age of the Humans), and that just stuck.

The biggest reason why I'm against this is that it would mean that almost whole history of the game would need to be rewritten. At the moment we have quite good understanding of when different events took place, but this would change everything. Changing some numbers isn't enough, because it would also mean that various characters would have lived during events they previously didn't, among other timeline inconsistensies.

Jagex would most certainly miss some of the needed changes (they can't even mark older quests with god references as Fifth Age) and that would cause even more confusion. The advantages of this change would be minimal, and disadvantages a lot greater.

Voya

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A lorehound, Quest Master and owner of three Quest Capes.

19-Jul-2016 10:23:28

A Mighty

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I agree with this. The main problem with the length of the ages is that there isn't enough reference to them in-game. The major relic of the God Wars happened in a few hours, and it seems like there would be more references to the ancient conflicts in-game, not just in dialogue. And while we're at it, as I've suggested before, let's make the 5th Age last 181 years; so that the passage of time then is the same as the passage of time now.

To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

19-Jul-2016 15:23:46

Sir Ike

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We need more ancient lore to fill in the huge gaps. Right now what we know is far too little to make sense for that much time. There needs to be more remnants from the godwars.

Here's a random idea. Everybody knows those nordic tombs in skyrim. How about a dungeoneering update to add tombs from the godwars dotted around the world from different factions and races. Or strongholds used by the armies to hide out and lay low. That could even be a treasure trails update, breaking into old crypts and military bases...so much can be done to give the length of the ages some sense.

19-Jul-2016 17:00:27 - Last edited on 19-Jul-2016 17:00:53 by Sir Ike

Solanumtinkr

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An Age is determined by an important event, the 5th Age may have been short but was marked by the discovery of Runecrafting and the resurgence of Magic, with that humans influence spread far and wide. Never mind the technological gains and the recovery of ancient knowledge once thought gone for good. The 6th was the return of the gods, but also marks humans expansion in to new technologies that can fight back, and so instead of being cannonfodder, they are the front line.

It's had a significant effect on the new God War, in that it is far more tactical and selective then the seemingly long drawn out and mindless head bashing of the past. As the public would not stand for general genocide as that would interfere with business and draw more avenging Adventures than you could shake a forest of sticks at!

The point of the conflict having gone on so long demonstrates that the driving force behind them is bughouse nuts, by human standards. And the fact is, checks and balances are in place. Too many troublemakers in a group gets you listed as a Slayer Assignment, and being imaginary and on the other side of the universe doesn't save you from being handed out as an assignment! The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

19-Jul-2016 19:15:43 - Last edited on 19-Jul-2016 19:19:18 by Solanumtinkr

AttilaSquare

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Thank you for all the feedback. I'm not going to address the problem of existing dialogue, since I addressed it in the introduction - it's obviously a major challenge. Also, I'm well aware that the ages are determined by significant events; I simply did not list them.

Regarding the idea that the Godwars lasted for millennia because the factions were continuously reinforced by populations from other worlds, I grant the point. The lore certainly makes sense. I simply think that 4,000 years is excessive with regard to the needs of story-telling, so excessive as to be counterproductive.

But this relates to the main objection made by Hguoh, Sepulchre, and Hazeel: that humans are insignificant, that the history of Gielinor is not meant to be fit for the human mind, that humans have accepted a history written from the perspective of other races. This strikes me as a problem, a problem with the lore. I don't think it's good story-telling. In fact, the whole thing becomes unbelievable.

Why would humans accept and propogate stories which have so little meaning for them? One might argue that the church of Saradomin has imposed upon the modern population of Gielinor an account of the world's history developed by the Icyene - no other long-lived race has been in a position to influence human education that way. But the Icyene have hardly been seen at all throughout most of the world for millennia. That the current account has persisted among Gielinor's human populations sounds far-fetched to me.

20-Jul-2016 01:42:32

AttilaSquare

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From a developer's perspective, I understand that one might try to make the story seem more grand, more epic, by introducing characters which have lived for thousands of years - but this is often a cheap trick. Tolkien did it, and I think he did it well. His ancient characters are so slow and ponderous that their extreme age is believable. But the immortal characters of RuneScape don't exhibit anywhere near the drawn out care of thought that one finds in Tolkien. RuneScape's gods are impetuous and all too human, even Zaros who is supposed to appear the least relatable for humans. So the vast expanses of time are inappropriate to the characters who populate them.

I don't mind the immature gods - RuneScape's ancient characters don't need to conform to traditional models of virtue and its pursuit of eternal wisdom. But they still ought to be embedded in good lore. Besides the related fact that histories relevant to humans ought to be found among humans, I think lore is best when it has a chance of meaning something to its audience. And characters within the reach of our human imaginations are more likely to mean something to us.

20-Jul-2016 01:42:53

AttilaSquare

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Of course, this is not a commanding argument. I am following an intuition and discussing what constitutes 'good lore' - always a tricky endeavor. But I have a sense that I am not alone in this sentiment. In fact, I bet we might find two camps among us: on the one hand, those who are reconciled to a world beyond our comprehension, ruled by powers indifferent to our fates, a world of alienation; and on the other, those who refuse to accept such a world, those who see in the world, or who seek in it, sense fitting for the human heart and mind, and a place for themselves within it.

Perhaps some of you think the latter indulge in a kind of anthropocentrism or a quaint view of a world in which all things relate to one another. Maybe I do so indulge. But maybe this belief in a community of things, in an intelligibility within the universe accessible to the human imagination, is essential to the idea of magic itself. For more on this idea, see Tolkien's "Mythopoeia." Anyway, I am confident that there is something to this intuition and that it inspires the proposal here, and I am further encouraged by the fact that it is endorsed by Tolkien - the master of lore-making himself.

@ A Mighty: I like that idea.

20-Jul-2016 01:43:12

Eren Lapucet

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I'll throw in a half-serious suggestion here: What if it's the Sixth Age that's taking long abnormally fast, and the Third Age was normal timeframe

I guess though I'll be content with the theory that the gods weren't literally fighting for 4,000 years, but rather that the Third Age was one long cold war between the factions that only occasionally led to major battles and conquest. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

20-Jul-2016 03:04:06 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2016 03:07:36 by Eren Lapucet

Hguoh

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AttilaSquare said :
Why would humans accept and propogate stories which have so little meaning for them? One might argue that the church of Saradomin has imposed upon the modern population of Gielinor an account of the world's history developed by the Icyene - no other long-lived race has been in a position to influence human education that way. But the Icyene have hardly been seen at all throughout most of the world for millennia. That the current account has persisted among Gielinor's human populations sounds far-fetched to me.

The current account has been notably altered from and corrected back to the truth, though.

You've had the confusion over Gielinor's origins (some claiming Saradomin made it).

You've had civilizations and most records of them purged (Zarosian Empire, the currently underwater city, the destruction of Forinthry, many Bandosian races etc...).

Details have been lost (countless battles blending into one long chain of wars, the claims that Saradomin banished Zamorak after the defeat of Zaros).

Myths were made (claims that Zamorak and Saradomin were chaos and order personified).

Heck, the entire first age and the truth about Gielinor's origins were forgotten until we did Meeting History (and later Fot* or HoS).

20-Jul-2016 04:01:44

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Let's Divide the Years by 10