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Mewzard
Dec Member 2023

Mewzard

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But they didn't know it would blow up the tower, they were just told by Zanmaron that something bad could happen, but no details as to what, whereas Armadyl told Zamorak what ended up happening.

The problem was, despite their friendship, there were too many trust issues and shading dealings going on. The head Green Wizard stole from the Red Apprentice's idea, the head Red Wizard hid the details of the demonic aspects from the Blue Wizards, and the head Blue Wizard led her apprentice out when that was revealed.

Had it all be laid out up front, no secrets, it would likely have been debated, theorized, and after a few months, either some sort of reluctant agreement would have been made, the spell would have been done, and everyone would be fine, or they would have needed two new Wizards to help.

The Blue Order isn't blameless here, but it wouldn't have happened if the Red Order was honest from the start, and that wouldn't have even been an issue if the Green Order's head hadn't gotten jealous and stole the research from the Red Order Apprentice. Hell, even then, they were still going to do it unknowingly until the Gray Order Apprentice revealed it was all the Red Order's doing.

Every group had some impact on the events in the end.

The Blue Order's head even would have been fine with the Demonic influence if it wasn't all Red's end:

"Mei the Grey: It's safe, Perien. I studied the ritual - it uses demonic power but it's safe.
Perien the Blue: You knew? Demonic power is never safe! We have to stop!
Una*a the Blue: I'm sure the demonic influence is minor. The core of the ritual is still Wizard Azris's Green magic.
Mei the Grey: Green magic?
Kelavan the Red: Mei, it doesn't matter-
Mei the Grey: Of course it matters! I was there when Kelavan made his breakthrough. This is his work!
Una*a the Blue: Azris, is this true?
Azris the Green: It should have been mine! I've worked all my life on this problem and then some kid has the idea - it should have been mine!"

01-May-2015 21:23:53

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Mewzard said :
But they didn't know it would blow up the tower, they were just told by Zanmaron that something bad could happen, but no details as to what, whereas Armadyl told Zamorak what ended up happening.

One thing of note: Nobody could have been sure what would have happened when Zamorak used the stone as he did. It had never been used in such an unstable condition before, and has never been used in such a condition since.

Armadyl may have guessed what would happen correctly, but it is important to remember that it was a completely uneducated and unsupported conclusion at the time.

01-May-2015 21:30:28

Svigris

Svigris

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Mewzard said :
snip

Honestly seeing how the gray wizards somehow knew what the ritual entailed I suspect the red wizards actually did tell what the ritual entailed, just that the blue wizards and green wizards didn't look at it. Honestly the blue wizards were being unyielding refusing to work with the red wizards sheerly on principle. While the green wizards were just being snobs. Honestly both Gray and Red seem to be free from guilt here. Both of them trying to further advance magical discover (in a location devoted to that purpose go figure), while the other two robes seem to be stuck up on honor and pride.

01-May-2015 21:40:36

Mewzard
Dec Member 2023

Mewzard

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Gray I can give you (the Apprentice just pointed it out, informing the Blues), but clearly the Red leader didn't detail this to the Blue leader upfront or this wouldn't have happened.

The Wizards Tower was about working together and from what I gathered they did work together for quite a while. Secrets between groups that traditionally don't work together didn't help the situation is all.

All I'm saying is a little more honesty up front on this whole thing would have changed how the Wizard Tower ended up being.

Would be cool if we ever could get a quest to return the Tower to its roots as a religious neutral ground where all sides work together to advance the mystic arts (well, more openly, anyways).

01-May-2015 21:50:02 - Last edited on 01-May-2015 21:50:34 by Mewzard

Aterivus
Dec Member 2020

Aterivus

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If all the Orders are at fault for the Tower's destruction, and this is an assertion I agree with...

Why is it that all of them have suffered EXCEPT for the Blue Order? That's the real issue at hand here. In the aftermath of its destruction, by virtue of being one of the few survivors, Perien gets to rebuild it and allow only Blue Wizards in the Tower from here on out.

The Grey and Green Order paid for their involvement and are no longer allowed in the Tower, and the Red Order not only suffers the same fate but the backlash forced the entire religion into the back alleys of society based entirely on the misconception that they attacked the tower and burned it to the ground .

Secrets may not have bode well between the groups in its first inception, but the Blue Order is still keeping the biggest under wraps in the second - and the aftermath of that secret has led to all but the Blue Order being allowed to practice magical research in the Tower. " All great changes are preceded by chaos. "

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01-May-2015 22:18:53

Mewzard
Dec Member 2023

Mewzard

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It does make me wish we got the details of what happened immediately afterwards. How did the immediate results of the end play out? Did Kelavan and Perien get to talk? Did one just see the other leave the wreckage and assume the worst? Hell, given the massive destruction, I have to wonder how much either even remembers about what happened. Head trauma would be the least to occur. It could be that one or both of the two survivors could have been manipulated by greedier members of their orders. Perien could have been convinced it was an attack on the tower by the Reds, and Kelavan could have been made to believe it to be a Blue plot.

Back to the past though, it does seem trust issues were at hand with the Red Order (or at least Zanmaron):

"Zanmaron the Red: Earlier today, Azris presented your idea to the Council as her own work.
Kelavan the Red: What?
Zanmaron the Red: When I looked into it after the meeting I saw your handiwork in there, and traces of the problem that I set you. You have a brilliant and chaotic mind, Kelavan the Red. Azris has worked on the same problem for so long that her mind has turned to stone, and her apprentice hasn't had an original thought in his life.
Kelavan the Red: They stole my idea?
Zanmaron the Red: Now, Kelavan, they took your idea. They took it, when you handed it to them. How many times have I told you, that we do not trust the other orders? This Tower became great precisely because the four orders are in conflict with one another. We of all the orders should remember that. "

Maybe that's not a bad idea holding back some trust, but when all sides did so at the same time, it seemed to, if you'll pardon my choice of words, blow up in everyone's face.

But yeah, truth revealed, the other Orders deserved better, and should be let back in. That said, I just don't know if it was malicious intent on Perien's end that caused this or just more mistrust exacerbating the problems they faced. Terrible way for friendships to end really.

01-May-2015 22:32:35

Ascertes

Ascertes

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Hazeel said :
Snip Dog

1. Perhaps you should go back and redo the quest or watch a video or something...because if you actually paid attention, you would know that's not true. Perien had little to nothing to do with the teleportation magic, therefore yes, the knowledge of teleportation was lost.

2. Quotes or it doesn't count, and good luck finding them.

3. You can still follow a religion without being religious.

You're really standing on thin ice and shaky ground. If I was you, I'd just give up now because this isn't a debate you can win. Accept the fact that all the orders were involved, and get over it. -Ascertes, King of all the Hallowlands and the Everchosen of Saradomin.

01-May-2015 22:33:09

Derack
Jul Member 2013

Derack

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Ascertes said :

2. Every order had a hand in the tower's destruction and to deny this is literal epitome of cherry picking and/or slander.
thats funny, last time we discused it you said that the blame was all on red.
"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

02-May-2015 13:10:03

Svigris

Svigris

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Derack said :
Ascertes said :

2. Every order had a hand in the tower's destruction and to deny this is literal epitome of cherry picking and/or slander.
thats funny, last time we discused it you said that the blame was all on red.

Come on Talon it was clearly red's fault. I mean if they hadn't been trying to do anything like develop arcane knowledge we clearly wouldn't be in this mess. Shame on those Zamorakians.

02-May-2015 14:19:01

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