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Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Pupppy said :

But err, how can you believe that "the empire runs with ruthless efficiency" if you do accept the accounts which state that corruption was running wild inside it?


I can totally understand where the confusion comes from. Ruthless efficiency and corruption are not actually contradictions. What I am trying to say is that the Church might break certain laws as an organization, that would have resulted in punishment for any individual, (Like having slave labor) in order to maximize efficiency. So they are simultaneously corrupt (because the church breaks laws), but is extremely efficient in their pursuits for results (Because they are corrupt).

Take Ford for example. Ford had a brand of care that they were aware of several design flaws. (The Gas tank was in a very compromising place, and small accidents could cause it to explode.) Rather than recall the car, the company calculated the cost of recalling all the cars, and calculated the expected law suits that they would have to pay, and noting that paying the laws suits was a cheaper option (despite the fact that they knew people would loose their lives), they went with it. So you see, corruption, but ruthless efficiency all in the name of profits/results.

08-Jan-2016 20:54:28 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2016 20:54:43 by Cthris

Hguoh

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I actually think Puppy has a bit of a point, though it may not be the one that was intended.

As we know, the church was central in Zarosian society. They handled the government, the healthcare, and education of the empire.

With that in mind, the significance of building a temple is bolstered. It wasn't because they were aesthetically pleasing or honoring Zaros. Rather, such a duty would be considered invaluable because the temples not only served as places of worship, but also served as administrative buildings, hospitals, at least 1 asylum, and schools.

That being said, however, building such temples would not have been a frivolous affair. As we already know, the church opted out of teaching citizens outside of the city, which would indicate some degree of fiscal ****ervitavism when it came to government spending (or in other words, efficiency was prioritized).

09-Feb-2016 12:58:25

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Prime Axiom said :
Cracks are canyons when the jealous try criticize competence for not being perfection.

One of the major virtues of this thread is objectivity, so if you find any normative claims, please let me know, thanks.

28-Feb-2016 06:09:36 - Last edited on 28-Feb-2016 07:14:12 by Cthris

The Mather1
May Member 2008

The Mather1

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So the new letters from the Empty Throne, in particular those from Madromurt and Nabor, give a tiny bit more insight on life in Forinthry.

Madromurt's letter further emphasises Sliske's role in the condition of the empire; what he claims to be a dedicated and honest diocese being subject to harassment by the Praetorians under threat of undue punishment, restricting his ability to perform his duties, and a suggestion that this condition permeates the empire.
On a brighter note however, it also carries the information that for all the corruption of the bureaucracy, benevolence was still existent within the church, as it suggests that his diocese may be keeping its people satisfied rather than just obedient.

Meanwhile Nabor's letter suggests a degree of detachment between society and the homeless with Senecianus only being able to speculate what their "culture" might be like. It also again speaks of a degree of benevolence in the society, with Senecianus feeding Rowena and openly talking about such with his clients, and with his wariness of the fact that his size and form tends to intimidate humans.
It also gives us some brand new information; apparently the Chthonians' ravenous hunger was an unknown to the rest of empire, with Nabor only becoming aware of it following his interview with Senecianus.

It also poses a rather worrisome question; why did these letters never reach Azzanadra?
"Abscondita est in Astra."

07-Nov-2016 17:06:46

Hguoh

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The Mather1 said :
It also poses a rather worrisome question; why did these letters never reach Azzanadra?

I think an earlier part of your post might hold the reason why.

The Mather1 said :
Madromurt's letter further emphasises Sliske's role in the condition of the empire; what he claims to be a dedicated and honest diocese being subject to harassment by the Praetorians under threat of undue punishment, restricting his ability to perform his duties, and a suggestion that this condition permeates the empire.

I know, I know. It's too easy to just blame Sliske, but where's my proof?

Well, how about these lines from DAT?

Zamorak: You are nothing but a rogue. A vagabond. We are nothing alike.
Sliske: No? Surely you have not forgotten I was Praetorian Prefect, back in the good old days of the Zarosian Empire. Did we not work together then, Legatus?

(there's some dialogue clarifying what Praetorian Prefect and Legatus (Maximus) are, that I'll be skipping)

Zamorak: Do not waste my time with talk of petty titles and fussy hierarchies. They led us only to weakness and stagnation.
Sliske: A fact of which I am well aware. Tell me, Zamorak - do you really think the Praetorian Prefect was not aware of your plot to overthrow Zaros?
Zamorak: You will not manipulate me with your lies, Sliske. I know you too well to be tricked by the deceptions you spin.
Sliske: I have no reason to lie about this. The old society was oh so boring. Everyone being watched, afraid to put a foot out of line.
Sliske: Your development of this 'chaos' ideology was a breath of fresh air. Honourable intentions certainly, but it was the results that had me intrigued.

He's one step away from flat out admitting that he played an integral part in Zamorak's coup, and yet managed to get away without either side realizing it.

07-Nov-2016 17:52:57

Hazeel

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Hmmm...I wonder if the Cthonians need to eat was the "dirt" that Nabor had and Azzanadra killed him for. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

07-Nov-2016 20:34:27

Zulkir

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Hazeel said :
Hmmm...I wonder if the Cthonians need to eat was the "dirt" that Nabor had and Azzanadra killed him for.

Is finding out something needs to eat be considered dirt?

Vampyre hunger was commonly known and accepted in the empire, surely an infernal race such as the Cthonians needing to eat wouldn't be a shattering revelation worth covering up like some grand conspiracy.
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Inconsistent Completionist

07-Nov-2016 22:08:24

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Hazeel said :
Hmmm...I wonder if the Cthonians need to eat was the "dirt" that Nabor had and Azzanadra killed him for.

I doubt it since Azzy never seems to have gotten the letter about it.

Given when the Asylum was purportedly sealed (which, according to Mod Jack, was during the collapse of the empire), I'd imagine it probably had to do with Azzanadra pretending the communion portal was working or telling Azzy that he wasn't actually hearing Zaros's voice.

07-Nov-2016 22:11:30

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