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Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

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Raxxess said :
Chaos Lupus said :
Raxxess said :
One reservation I did have and I talked to Dethal and others about this so I'll just put it out there.

Factions politics have long plagued the FC, and I myself am just kind of cautious over the fact that in terms of factions of our like 10 generals 5 are zamorakians, 4 Zarosians, and me as the Saradominists. I just think it would be nicer if things were a little more diverse but I know that dethal said he would consider this.

If we are going to switch back to generals, I don't think factions should have anything to do with it. If someone does let their faction influence their decisions, they aren't fit for the role and it should instead be given to someone else.

Yea but who decides that? And we know everyone to some extent has a history of bias and factionism its the lore community, and even if the person thinks they are above it others don't view the person that way.

I think its a valid concern. We can't say factions shouldn't play a part then make a vast majority of generals from the same clan and from the same faction.
I think you're really raising a false flag here.

The Generals suggested to Dethal were from a list created by people who represent neither the clan, nor faction you claim this system favors. The individuals chosen were done so based on merit, not anything arbitrary like faction or clan.

And more Generals can still be added, it just happens to be that the Generals chosen already pretty much all have a proven track record of successfully serving as Generals. That has nothing to do with what faction or clan they represent.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

16-Mar-2016 02:22:52 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2016 02:24:19 by Unicornz pwn

Hazeel

Hazeel

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I'm fine with the idea of a test run. If Dethal wants to try a new system for a week or two, that's fine. No harm done in the end. But I do believe the final decision should be voted on.

I am still very against factions being involved in the running of this FC in any way whatsoever. This faction system has failed for literally every "muli-faction organization" that it has ever been tried on.

And when faction clans were a key part of the FC, things were hell. Factions, not qualifications, were the key points of selecting generals. Factions were part of your identity. They were so prominent in politics, I knew every single FC members faction without even asking. This is no longer the case. Nowadays I only know very prominent faction members who have made themselves known on the lorums.

Back when factions were key, you couldn't do anything without inciting a war. There was no individual accountability. If you did something to tick off one Zarosian, he'd have the others at his back within seconds. If a Zamorakian did something against the rules, you couldn't punish him without the others crying foul. And if a Saradominist abused their power, you had to turn a blind eye if it was against one of the smaller faction members.

It was absolute hell getting rid of that system and there was so much drama involved, but to this day I will say that it was worth it. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

16-Mar-2016 02:55:35

Hazeel

Hazeel

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I'd love to scare away "factions" themselves. But in terms of people? No. Even those most vehemently against removing a faction system stayed after the change. Bandosians had already left because there was much tension between them and the Armadyleans and a political faction imbalance due to the system. Honestly, it was like watching three gangs carve out territory. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

16-Mar-2016 03:22:56

Ehecoatl

Ehecoatl

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I agree with Hazeel, recently faction issues tore apart our clan and killed it. Multi-faction ideas are bad and haven't worked that I have seen, there is to much bias and it clouds judgement. It creates a us against them mentality for no other reason besides they chose a different faction.
You will learn that even the gods walk in darkness, and only Sliske knows the way.

16-Mar-2016 04:35:44

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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At the end of the day, generals exist to moderate the chat, and that's it. Their respective factions don't factor into it. If any general deviates from that purpose, they're pretty much unfit for the responsibility.

That said... I also would like the FC to be as attractive and inclusive as possible, and to that end I think having some diversity amongst the leadership of the FC makes it clear that all are welcome. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

16-Mar-2016 04:44:21 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2016 04:54:12 by Raleirosen

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

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Raleirosen said :
At the end of the day, generals exist to moderate the chat, and that's it. Their respective factions don't factor into it.
Agreed, people who attempt to make this about individuals, factions, and clans, are just using that as an excuse to try and accumulate power for themselves, which is not what being a General is about.

Just moderate the FC, make sure discussion is civil and appropriate, and there should not be a problem. People that make it one clearly have their own agenda.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

16-Mar-2016 04:48:24

Mopedi
Aug Member 2021

Mopedi

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Lets just pick generals who are on usually a long time during the course of a day. The only real reason we need a general is to make sure no one breaks the game's code of conducts. No solicitation, no 18+ obscene contents, no real-life threats, etc. all which someone in the fc has been known to break once in a while. Just monitor the fc to see if someone breaks one of these rules and apply warning, kicks, bans. I don't see how hard that is, unless you don't know what a real-life threat looks like. God political discussions and some healthy rivalry amongst factions is fine as long as the discussion doesn't get derailed into a retelling of 50 Shades of Gray with gods.

Too many people are breaking basic game rules in this fc with no punishment, and the game's report system apparently does little to nothing to help. Ignoring these individuals will not help, as they will simply encourage others to follow in their foot steps. It's like ignoring a rat and allowing it to freely reproduce. Also, we need to enforce jagex's rules, even if jagex's system fails to catch them. Just because a poor old lady is being robbed on the street and no police is around to stop them doesn't mean you should just walk by. We need to punish bad behavior, not ignore or encourage it. Just because there are no cops around doesn't mean it is alright to drive 30 miles over the speed limit (sorry for the excessive analogies.)
Lord of the Cywir clan: All creatures of darkness will face the light of Seren!

16-Mar-2016 04:49:08

Ascertes

Ascertes

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Hazeel said :
Snip.

You're absolutely right that clans/factions shouldn't have a place. The problem is that no matter how hard we try those alliances, coalitions and biases will always exist. To claim otherwise is just silly. We have to limit the influence of those old allegiances, but having a near monopoly of a single individual faction (which is also pretty much the same clan,) isn't the answer as far as I'm concerned. If anything, it jut makes it that much harder to promote a fair system.

I'm all for a new system, don't get me wrong. Something had to change. But the way this was implemented is open to great deal of skepticism and I think the concerns people have raised are perfectly valid. -Ascertes, King of all the Hallowlands and the Everchosen of Saradomin.

16-Mar-2016 05:38:40

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Of course there will be groups and factions. But giving them untouchable power--in the name of "balance"--was the problem. It doesn't really matter how generals knew each other in the recent system. It didn't matter if 90% were Sliskean, Zamorak, Saradominist or Zarosian. They never had true political power and if, at any point, the FC felt certain generals or even a group of generals was more focused on looking after their own than keeping a balanced view, they could remove them.

The problem with generals so far has been that we want generals for issues that they're required in but also want a relaxed FC. This leaves us with generals that do very little and are more likely to abuse power over individual squabbles than do anything productive. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

16-Mar-2016 06:32:49 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2016 06:33:24 by Hazeel

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