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Leopold

Leopold

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Raxxess said :
Dennorak said :
I think Zaros knows plenty on Saradomin, he and Saradomin were on Gielinor at the same time, don't forget that.


When Zaros mentions Saradomin he brings up "wiping out" Zaros empire. Which Zaros wasn't present for, and didn't have contact with his followers so it is an inconsistency.


So... Azzanadra, Sliske, Nex, Char, Ashulot Reis, Nex's Followers, Book of the Gods - Zaros, are all lying to Zaros and the player.

Lets nevermind the fact Zaros can compel loyalty and control people to tell the truth. Nevermind that Azzanadra never lies to Zaros.
Nevermind that Azzanadra was wondering where all the Zarosian buildings and cities where when he reappeared and became Dr.Nabinik to find out what happened.

Kayy.

30-Apr-2014 22:57:20

Ancientm3ge

Ancientm3ge

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Raxxess said :
Dennorak said :
I think Zaros knows plenty on Saradomin, he and Saradomin were on Gielinor at the same time, don't forget that.


When Zaros mentions Saradomin he brings up "wiping out" Zaros empire. Which Zaros wasn't present for, and didn't have contact with his followers so it is an inconsistency.


Many Zarosian were present during this time such as Nex, Sliske, and those that fled to the desert. It was not just Azzanadra who saw these things.

Zaros learned of them later yes but that does not make the account false based on Azzanadras testament.
Enlightenment is coming

30-Apr-2014 22:57:43

Raxxess

Raxxess

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Leopold said :
Raxxess said :


They aren't quotes they are his memories. Just like the Guthixian memories this is what he remembers. Your premise is that the lore we have is false because it doesn't follow your factiom
[/quote]

What you said is the Saradominist stance. Deny and lawyer facts to avoid knowing that Saradomin is really a monster. How many threads are there lawyering Saradomin's destruction of the Naragi, Garlandia, and the Third Age?

Anyway,

Your point about Azzanadra's memory is that he wanted to use Zarosian forces to exterminate Saradominists, Zamorakians, and Armadyleans, when that simply is not true.

He wanted to hold the gods Saradomin, Zamorak, and Armadyl accountable - not his followers.

His memory is moreover most likely a few years or right after Zaros has died and the Zarosian empire was in panic. That Azzanadra had given them hope is irrelevant since the story from Temple at Senntisten and reviving from Desert Treasure says that Azzie did keep in some form of contact with Zaros.

You don't know if he's crazy or really divining Zaros's directives and advice from the entire context of the game (DT/TAS/MahMem)

Too subjective to be conclusive.[/quote]

I'm simply making my point. Of course if there is any lore that makes Saradomin look like a monster you take it as completely cannon lore. I'm just stating that it isn't there are inconsistencies and Zaros opinion on Saradomin isn't fact. I'm not saying Zaros is evil I'm not saying Saradomin is good. I'm saying that you can't deem that Saradomin is fully evil because its not stable territory because here the information Zaros has is shaky.
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

30-Apr-2014 22:57:58

Leopold

Leopold

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William Witt said :
I actually have talked to certain Saradominists ingame in the past trying to get them to change their ways (admittedly because I recognise that this makes us look bad, not out of the goodness of my heart). I am sorry to say that I failed.


Try doing it on ze forums. =P

30-Apr-2014 22:58:29

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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@ Ancient

It's not canon, as it's only been mentioned in J Mod quotes, but Skargaroth was apparently seeking out any god he could find and killing them. In his mind, he was freeing mortals from the tyranny of the gods. So sooner or later, he would likely have gone after Saradomin.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

30-Apr-2014 22:59:51

Raxxess

Raxxess

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Ancientm3ge said :
Raxxess said :
Dennorak said :
I think Zaros knows plenty on Saradomin, he and Saradomin were on Gielinor at the same time, don't forget that.


When Zaros mentions Saradomin he brings up "wiping out" Zaros empire. Which Zaros wasn't present for, and didn't have contact with his followers so it is an inconsistency.


Many Zarosian were present during this time such as Nex, Sliske, and those that fled to the desert. It was not just Azzanadra who saw these things.

Zaros learned of them later yes but that does not make the account false based on Azzanadras testament.


And I go through the same cycle again. Ill try to sum it up all the quotes and lore references are above.

Basically Azzanadra was going mad. He claimed that he was hearing Zaro's voice and that Zaros was telling him to kill the other gods and expand the empire. Which goes directly against what Zaros told us in Fot*.

Zaros received his information on what became of his empire from Azzanadra when communication was re-established.

All I'm saying is someone lied or something is wrong. Either Zaros could communicate with his followers despite telling you he couldn't and not responding to them. Or Azzanadra went mad and his stories shouldn't be taken exactly as fact, and Zaros being the god he is trusted that Azzanadra's word was what happened.
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

30-Apr-2014 23:02:07

Leopold

Leopold

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I'm simply making my point. Of course if there is any lore that makes Saradomin look like a monster you take it as completely cannon lore. I'm just stating that it isn't there are inconsistencies and Zaros opinion on Saradomin isn't fact. I'm not saying Zaros is evil I'm not saying Saradomin is good. I'm saying that you can't deem that Saradomin is fully evil because its not stable territory because here the information Zaros has is shaky.

No he's not fully evil - still evil - but not Rpg Villain evil.

But even if it isnt from Zaros himself it does come from:
•Ashulot Reis
*Nex's Followers
•Azzanadra's observations & memories
•Zaros's Memories
•Book of Gods - Zaros
•AoG, although a bit shaky, is a guide to the 3rd age events.
•Wgs - Battle of Ankharl - scene where Saradomin revives Zilayna with Stone of Jas.

But yes I do see value in Saradomin, I just think Armadyl is a better option than absolute order since it also implies a sense of tyranny and oppression.


Saradominists aren't really inherently good either - Asgarnia is controlled by the White Knights and not the King. Kandarin is controlled and mixed in with the Dark Lord.

30-Apr-2014 23:03:24 - Last edited on 30-Apr-2014 23:05:17 by Leopold

Ancientm3ge

Ancientm3ge

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William Witt said :
@ Ancientm8ge

Well, you wouldn't put me in that category, would you?

From the Tribute to Guthix memories:

Original message details are unavailable.
At daybreak, a distant sound roused me. I dashed outside to witness a huge, tusked creature crashing upon the white fortress of the blue giant.

The blue giant materialised and grappled with the beast.


He specifically materialised to fight Tuska. He didn't have to do that—If he were defending himself, he could have just left. If you doubt Saradomin based on the notion that you have no proof what he says is true, then the same could be said of Zaros.

P.S. Also, come on, no need to call me 'Saradominist'. Things aren't that formal between us, I hope. :P


1} No I do not put you in that category, I respect you for seeing both sides and not viewing the lore through a tinted lens.

2} No we do not have to be that formal :P

3} Of course it can be said that Zaros is lying or has lied about some things, I was never under any illusion to the contrary! I chose to believe him based upon my view of the lore and his background just as one may choose to believe Saradomin.

At the end of the day I would prefer it if we never had complete details on all things, it is much more interesting to leave things open to interpretation.

For instance did Saradomin appear to defend himself or the Naragi, or his followers? Maybe he appeared to fight Tuska because he thought he could win easily as he was arrogant at the time? Perhaps he was enraged that any dare attack his stronghold and sought to dispatch the interloper? We may never know :P
Enlightenment is coming

30-Apr-2014 23:03:56

Leopold

Leopold

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William Witt said :
I would have, but saying 'you can't do this because it makes us look bad' might itself make us look bad.


So image > right or wrong.

Okay good to know.

By the way which good guy did you choose in Cabbage Bonanza?

Was it the Party Monkey or the April Fools Joke?

30-Apr-2014 23:04:23

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