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Sixth Age - Criticisms

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Raxxess

Raxxess

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Just for the lolz, I'm very glad that if Saradomin was to lose it was in WE3 the real loser of WE3 was jagex because it seems like there was tons of development in it and obviously players really didn't like it.

To add to my criticism Bree was handled very poorly. For one I doubt many people know who he is second unlike every other god rep there we had never talked to Bree before this point and of course every one of them had a cookie cutter dialogue. Also had Saradomin won since there was no lore with the Tuska event it would have just been bad because he and Tuska have had such a history of it just ended with a cut scene of him killing her that would be a massive waste and I wouldve been way more disappointed. It likes how Saradomin won WE1 is he really better off than Zamorak right now? He has no lime light the mods admitted they put stuff in to hurt his popularity and he hasn't been in many quests at all and they just threw him into Owens signature heroes quest. I get if jagex goes down the world event route but look at Arms and Sara they rightfully won but development wise they were the long run losers
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

03-Dec-2016 16:11:25

Rondstat

Rondstat

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I've been thinking about this, since the first chapter of the 6th Age has come to a close.

I agree with a lot of your points. I think that most 5th Age stuff wouldn't necessarily have made a difference were it concluded prior to TWW, but some 5th Age storylines (Myreque and Desert) definitely should have been. More problematic, though, is the route they've taken to accessibility. While omitting quest requirements in the interest of accessibility is not necessarily a bad thing, the fact that it's also caused certain devs to ignore or outright contradict existing storybeats is not okay. Plus, players are being dropped into the middle of stories with no context - in some cases, major background (world event lore) simply isn't available in the game!

I'd have preferred if they somehow found a way to remove skill requirements from 5th Age quests, and focused on giving all players a foundation in lore, and not robbing them of the thrill of discovery that comes from experiencing major story revelations.

Miniquests have been fantastic, and I hope we see more. More than anything else, I think we NEED some miniquests for past world events.

I'm not certain that lack of dialogue or establishment for gods' characters is a bad deal. While I absolutely would love a dialogue manager, I'm thinking more to ensure consistent characterization and, uh, grammar.

In terms of gods/factions, though, my biggest disappointment has been that TWW, DoC, and WE1 all heralded a new god wars, a time of unceasing, daunting bloodshed directed by callous, distant immortals, that would destroy the lives of many, but leave no winner. The bucolic world we knew would soon become unrecognizable.

Then the focus shifted to gods, games, and missions, instead of communities, warfare, and tragedy. I think we should have had less gods, and more humanistic stories about the people affected - cos now gods are mundane, and it's easy to lose investment.

03-Jan-2017 10:21:31

Rondstat

Rondstat

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For a while I've been sort of knocking around ideas in my head. How I'd change the Sixth Age while keeping the same quests and major story beats. Here are the things I'd look for~

-less gods. Their scope is far beyond ours, they should never take interest in individual mortals. We should never get chummy with a god or be able to sit down and ask em 20 questions, even if we are the world guardian. They should be distant, and their appearances should be rare and portentous
-more suffering. The world should be affected; gods and dragonkin running around should not be a good thing
-more consistency. With old stories, with characterization, with reveals.

So, here are my modifications to all the god quests ~ this may get long.

Death of Chivalry
This is mostly okay, but Saradomin should be reduced to a cameo, only doing what suits a god

-Quest starts with Amik Varze/Vey Lance giving us mission sending to rendezvous with Owen

-Saradomin only appears to take wand, revive Owen

-Quest ends with Amik/Vey, horrified at Owen's corruption and morosely expelling him from the Temple Knights


Missing Presumed Death
This needs an overhaul. Bandos and Armadyl shouldn't have been introduced with zero fanfare, the whole setup for the game never felt right, and the way Strisath was presented robbed the impending, unfathomably powerful and unknowably ancient threat from RotM of any sort of impact.

-First section of the quest the same. After returning to Samwell from the Wizard's Tower, a troop of White Knights has taken over the investigation, inform us a battalion has made for the Elven lands to exact retribution for fallen monks

-At gates of Arandar, elves in tense standoff with White Knights and Blue Wizards. One elf felled by magic spell, offending wizard instantly cut down in hail of arrows. Frenzied melee breaks out between both sides (combat encounter?)

03-Jan-2017 10:42:59

Rondstat

Rondstat

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-We investigate body of wizard; cold as if it's been dead for hours. We try to get white knight commander to call off troops, claims needs direct order from Falador. A goblin from the adjacent camp seems to watch all proceedings

-Outside Falador, line of Kinshra face grouped White Knights as Thaerisk/rando druid makes entreaties for peace. White Knights claim they've discovered treachery, rooted out kinshra spies within their walls. Black knights deny having spies, don't need it with a god on their side.

-Zamorak appears over kinshra, and Saradomin in turn materializes with white knights. A cry pierces the air - the dragonkin (Sakirth and Sithaph) have arrived to slay false user. We avoid their flames (running puzzle?) while they proceed to obliterate all massed forces, including Thaerisk/rando druid. One kin attacks Sara, the other Zammy, and the gods manage to teleport selves and Kin away. A goblin who's wandered from goblin village witnesses the carnage
The dragonkin are THE big threat at the end of the 5th Age, and I think they should have had a constant presence, attacking false users and causing inexorable destruction

-Within Falador, lightly armoured knights walk the streets with billy clubs, no regular citizens are about, houses are shuttered, and criers shout saradominist propaganda, as well as warnings about curfews, mandatory inspections, other vaguely fascist stuff. One house has door broken in, possessions smashed, Zamorak symbol painted in blood on wall. We take sample
We never got to see the devastating, yet routine ways gods could devastate familiar communities, as alluded to in Guthixian memories and DoC

-Varrock Apothecary, analyzes, determines it's blood of giant crypt rat, only found one place in Morytania

-At Barrows, Guardians of Armadyl confront Barrows bros, demand Sliske return Staff (pattern puzzle? more elaborate Barrows door puzzle to open some chest?)

03-Jan-2017 10:54:48 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2017 10:57:36 by Rondstat

Rondstat

Rondstat

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-Sliske appears and taunts the Guardians, asking why Armadyl doesn't take back the staff himself. Guardians claim Armadyl is all around them, watching. Sliske kills most of them, raises as wights, but then he's zapped by some powerful, unseen force, retreats
An allusion to the incorporeal Armadyl theory

-A spying goblin is discovered. Under threats, he reveals he and other priests were given scrying orbs by shadowy one, lets them communicate with Big High War God, show him war, entice him back. As we speak, readying for his return to Plain of Mud. We take his orb

-South of Seers Village, seers and Guardians of Armadyl face goblins and ogres. Goblin Priests make circle around mask-like plinth, Bandos makes grand entrance in cutscene, commands army, Seer's Village left in ruins with citizens (ie questgivers) barricading selves inside
Every new god should have some meaningful buildup

-We use stolen orb to solve puzzle with summoning plinth, enter shadow realm (where mask symbol becomes half hexagon grid, half compass). We face sliske. He claims the Staff was a gift, tells us a war is inevitable, and he doesn't want to be pawn/knight/queen like last time; he wants to be the one moving the pieces. He reveals Death in a cage, assures he plans to release them, but when all those souls come flooding the Underworld at once, many will be lost, ripe for wighthood. But, biggest reason for kidnapping is love of dramatic flair

-Cutscene, across battlefields and warring gods, tormented souls from fallen soldiers speak as one ~ they welcome back the gods, encourage them to keep fighting, and, at the next eclipse, the one to kill the most gods will win a scrumptious prize. Death is released, Sliske disappears.
Introduces stakes for 6th Age, not in enclosed competition, but on cusp of all out war. SoJ itself reserved for more impactful reveal, not hidden and found like nothing

03-Jan-2017 11:14:08

Rondstat

Rondstat

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-Postquest, every so often, battle breaks out between npcs north of Falador and South of (now rubble strewn and smoking) Seer's Village; white knights vs kinshra, and Guardians of Armadyl/seers vs goblins/ogres, respectively. Falador remains under martial law
Adds an element of ongoing godwars, human conflict and warfare to 6th Age


Bird and the Beast

-Pre-event, charges of lightning, lights in the sky, and weird random weather patterns appear south of Falador
A portentous pre-event creates buildup for Armadyl, like WE1 for Zamorak

-Event begins, weather anomaly erupts in burst of feathers, Armadyl's arrived. Then, same intro cutscene

-No god dialogue
Again, I think the gods should feel more remote, larger than life but ultimately untouchable figures, as they were in WE1

-At conclusion, Focus strikes bandos, inflicts massive wound to chest, but he still lives. Armadyl flies over to finish job, but debilitated by still-more-physically powerful Bandos (maybe does some wing-ripping of his own?), before mortally wounded Bandos teleports to safety
Leaves the moment of god death for more narratively satisfying quest content


Fate of the Gods
The return of Zaros was not treated as a revelation, and it lacked the thematic hallmarks of the storyline it concluded. Also, no particular reason to be 6th Age ~ why not just meet big Z on Freneskae any old time? Minimize the presence of Zaros, and emphasize adventuring and ancient, forgotten secrets

-Quest starts with Azzanadra. He explains, Zamorak held only remaining physical piece of Zaros' body; with his return, finally have key to restoring Empty Lord. Sliske was sent to steal Shard of Zaros, but has not reported in, seems to have disappeared.

03-Jan-2017 11:30:30

Rondstat

Rondstat

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-We follow a trail of 'hastily abandoned digsites' beneath Canifis, Edgeville, and Ardougne (dungeons). Each dungeon has a section of 'unearthed 2nd Age Architecture' (maybe let us access a tiny 'Praetorian Tomb' for each?). A simple grid puzzle lets us sift through dig, uncover left and right calibration symbols and Naragun Codex (so easy to find, almost as if they were planted...). At each digsite, Sliske's left a memory wisp, hidden in shadow realm which contains memory of 2nd Age, Zaros' views/policies (replace some of the endless Zaros dialogue), and indicates which dungeon to go to next.
To maintain a little of the exploration and trekking, signature to Desert Treasure and Temple at Senntisten

-Final wisp appears at World Gate, which we activate to see Gate materialize out of Shadow Realm

-Dr. Nabanik sets up archaelogical dig at Gate, we solve puzzles to unlock the Gate using the artefacts we uncovered at digsites (later revealed we can modify Gate cos Guardian of Guthix). When last puzzle solved and Gate active, Sliske suddenly appears from shadows and runs through gate, Azzy follows

-We catch up with Azzy at the Sanctum, just in time to see a purple orb flash out of existence. Azz has set up artefacts from Temple at Senntisten in Sanctum, overjoyed to spek with his lord directly, shocked to learn about Zaros' creation, and that we're at the base of an Elder's refuge, need her energy to restore him (replaces Zaros' reveals)

-Nihil sequence replaced with long, dangerous trek up volcano ~ full of natural disturbances, otherworldly screams, muspah/mahjarrat corpses, etc
A buildup to Mah, which was lacking

-Sliske jabs the shard in Mah's eye, enraging her, triggering nightmare sequence. Afterwards, Mah appears to be crying. When descend to Elder Halls, tears appear to cascade down centre, with Shard of Zaros suspended over rift and growing

03-Jan-2017 11:52:51

Jack Flac
Feb Member 2022

Jack Flac

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Raxxess said :
Just for the lolz, I'm very glad that if Saradomin was to lose it was in WE3 the real loser of WE3 was jagex because it seems like there was tons of development in it and obviously players really didn't like it.

To add to my criticism Bree was handled very poorly. For one I doubt many people know who he is second unlike every other god rep there we had never talked to Bree before this point and of course every one of them had a cookie cutter dialogue. Also had Saradomin won since there was no lore with the Tuska event it would have just been bad because he and Tuska have had such a history of it just ended with a cut scene of him killing her that would be a massive waste and I wouldve been way more disappointed. It likes how Saradomin won WE1 is he really better off than Zamorak right now? He has no lime light the mods admitted they put stuff in to hurt his popularity and he hasn't been in many quests at all and they just threw him into Owens signature heroes quest. I get if jagex goes down the world event route but look at Arms and Sara they rightfully won but development wise they were the long run losers See, Bree came up numerous times during the Sixth Age, two notable points being DoC and WE1. Bree is also fighting alongside Zilyana in GWD1. So it isn't like Bree came out of nowhere. With Garlandia, because I wasn't able to participate in WE2&3 thanks to life going crazy, I didn't hear anything about her until a few weeks ago, around the release of SLiskes Endgame. Leader of The Enemy ||
The opposite of Justice is simply another Justice. What is Evil is subjective to each person.
YOU
are their evil

03-Jan-2017 12:07:15

Rondstat

Rondstat

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-Sliske makes his case - of course he wants another god in the mix, but wouldn't it be better if Zaros came with an expiration date? Dark and light wisps roam chamber; we siphon these and deposit them into the growing Shard of Zaros. When body nearly formed, earthquakes and inhuman wails rise, Sliske says Mah senses her baby's come home, advises us to run back to Azzy, then vanishes. We make trek back avoiding flying rocks, lava, lightning

-At sanctum, distressed Azzy says his Lord needs just a little more time. As a giant rock falls from cieling, about to crush us, Zaros teleports in, saves us

-Edge of Mind sequence. Zaros explains his plans and the current crisis, but we don't get to ask many questions - fairly brief encounter. He conjures his lieutenants to appear in the mindspace, get the same ending scene.


The Mighty Fall
While I think this was an effective sendoff for the Bandosians, it butchered Zanik and our relationship. I'd have preferred to preserve Zanik's agency, and make both hers and Bandos' deaths more meaningful.

-Same general setup. Tourney to determine who will lead Bandos' armies, as he exacts vengeance on other gods, promotes war

-Zanik is more actively involved, part of our camp, more horrified at her nightmares literally coming true. Her arc: she fears something deep inside her enjoys violence and bloodsport, longs to be part of fight; cos to acknowledge this is to acknowledge possibility, Bandos right all along, she is chosen commander. Ultimately realizes will to fight is strength, and there is value in strength, to protect her people, to finally get out of Bandos' shadow, not let fear of him control her destiny, like the pendant did before. She's a fighter, so she joins us for final fight

-Instead of player, player-as-Zanik roots out spies, kills with signature cbow move; set at same time as first match
To preserve some of Zanik's badassery

03-Jan-2017 12:09:55

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