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Zamorak vs. Zamorakianism

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Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Giras said :
Actually I don't think they had leaders at all before the incident, Zamorak made them stronger because they've broken out of their rut. Remember, nothing changed for them except age. By forcing them to make preparations for future fires they've broken their rut and opened up the way for new inventions and improved qualities of life through those advancements.

Sorry I should have been more clear, the individuals who would become leaders existed inside the society already did they not? Regardless, it appears you have changed your definition of strength so it matters little now. Do you now wish to define strength as being dynamic?

Anyways, again with the word advancement. Can you please answer my question about the advancement paradox if you wish to continue to use it.

22-Mar-2017 01:25:54

Giras
Sep Member 2012

Giras

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What do you mean by changing my definition of strength? Strength has always meant to me: the ability to deal with the rigors of life and any surprises life throws at you. Being better prepared and more adaptable are both factors.

There's no paradox, you're just being cheeky. While we don't get any closer to infinity we can say for certain that 5 is bigger than 4. It's never a detriment to improve the quality of life and the level of knowledge. With this BS about never getting closer to infinity you might as well argue there's no difference between life now and life during the dark ages.
I'm no one's servant!

Good. Never let anyone think differently
.

22-Mar-2017 01:30:07

Giras
Sep Member 2012

Giras

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Rifleavenger said :
Snip
Being a healer simply means helping conditions improve, they may have no understanding of medicine but the healers could simply be people that help the patients improve and assist them in their ADLs.
Who knows whether they're better for long term or just the immediate crisis? The thing is, those leaders at the very least would ensure the successful recovery or prevention of another more serious calamity.
The village doesn't have to adopt chaos, their new order would be stronger than before and they'd have learned that changing nothing from day to day is dangerous. At the very least they've improved from the experience which demonstrates the effectiveness of Zamorak's lesson plan.
Who said Zamorakianism is turning chaos onto 110%? Zamorak himself has stated that chaos is to be utilized to improve. Sliske's chaos for chaos' sake and for destruction is dangerous and wrong as stated by Zamorak himself. Zamorakianism is the proper utilization for chaos, and improvement in the face of adversity, not that the answer of everything=chaos.
Quote from The Book of Zamorak: "We watched them for days and each day I noted the same people walked the same paths, the same routes, simply growing older as they performed the same tasks."
This was also not an isolated incident.
"He showed me countless worlds that all showed the same. Without chaos, life stagnates. People become complacent and do not seek to better themselves. Achievement is defined by overcoming obstacles, and obstacles are only created through chaos and strife; through the unexpected." It shows that Moia was shown a bunch of examples where the proper utilization of chaos allowed for improvement. While the statement is vague I don't think Moia would be so sure in Zamorakianism if she didn't see long-lasting results as she was horrified at the initial fire.
I'm no one's servant!

Good. Never let anyone think differently
.

22-Mar-2017 01:42:57

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Giras said :
What do you mean by changing my definition of strength? Strength has always meant to me: the ability to deal with the rigors of life and any surprises life throws at you. Being better prepared and more adaptable are both factors.

Then by your own admission what you previously had to me were only factors rather than a definition so you can understand my confusion.

First and foremost, societies aren't alive, thus they do not go through the rigors of life, but I'm not here to try to catch you up on words but to find the truth so I'll assume you mean the rigors of existence and any external forces acted upon the "item" in question.

It naturally follows that I should ask what are the requirements for a society to be considered existing?
[/quote]

Giras said :

There's no paradox, you're just being cheeky. While we don't get any closer to infinity we can say for certain that 5 is bigger than 4. It's never a detriment to improve the quality of life and the level of knowledge. With this BS about never getting closer to infinity you might as well argue there's no difference between life now and life during the dark ages.

5 is bigger than 4, that is true. But the point is that advancement means to move forward. But you cannot move forward on an infinite scale because infiniteness is unmeasurable and you can never move closer in relation to the end. Thus it makes no sense to use advancement in this context.

Anyways, I'm going to assume what you meant was that I might as well argue that there is no value/quality difference between life now and life during the dark ages. If I was I certainly wouldn't be the first.

But tell me, how would you prove that there is a difference in quality between life now and life during the dark ages?

22-Mar-2017 01:46:46 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2017 01:54:00 by Cthris

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Power is simply a measure of your ability to accomplish whatever it is you want. Survival is only one small part of this. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

22-Mar-2017 02:35:09

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Giras said :
For a society to be defined as existing it would have people living within it that identify it as a single unit.

You can tell the quality of life is different from that of the middle ages by the very fact that you're sitting here not surrounded by human excrement... though you are most certainly full of bull excrement.

That's a unique definition in all honesty. Take the U.S. for example. As you know there are two polarized political philosophies. I doubt that most people within would identify as a single unit.

Furthermore, it follows that you could have societies of just one person because you could have a person who identifies as a single unit could you not.

Surely societies require more things to exist than a single person?

Secondly, I assure you I am not playing around here. I am generally interested in how you would prove objectively that this society is more advanced than historic societies. It's a famous topic of philosophers, specifically John Rousseau and Benjamin Constant.

22-Mar-2017 02:39:01

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Giras said :
You're clearly wasting my time here... so bye.

I'm just trying to understand your argument. It's impossible for me to agree or critique your position when you give so few details. From what I can see you have taken up a position that relies on many assumptions and the use of general terms in which you offer no definition. Thus I have to pry the definitions and the causes for your assumptions out of you, which can only be done in a very tedious manner as far as I know. (See the Republic by Plato)

22-Mar-2017 02:46:15 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2017 02:47:58 by Cthris

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hazeel said :
Power is simply a measure of your ability to accomplish whatever it is you want. Survival is only one small part of this.
Does survival always have to be a part of this? Or can we consider those that commit suicide among the most powerful?

22-Mar-2017 02:50:59

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