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Vardan

Vardan

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Dennorak said :
My problem with Saradomin is during the cutscene Zamorak is sitting there with the stone, a weapon of mass destruction, and instead of making any effort or letting Armadyl make any effort to talk him down, he only threatens Zamorak with death. So basically Zamorak don;t use the stone so I can kill you? What the hell did Saradomin think Zamorak was going to do?
Saradomin probably was to angry to think clearly. It's not like he was completely without reason to be extremely ****** at Zamorak. The guy killed millions of his followers and the war had devastated the continent. He wanted Zamorak's head and he wanted it now before Zamorak could somehow escape.
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

25-Feb-2015 21:59:58

Vardan

Vardan

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Aterivus said :
Raxxess said :
Lol they are calling it negotiating, which I really don't think it is but if that what we are calling it. I mean like if you have a nuke by your side and say "hey this is how i want the world to be follow it" he didn't try to give a truce or anything. He could have just said my philosophy will rule in my lands your philosophy can rule yours.

Yeah, I'm kind of doubting that they were going to let Zamorak walk away to practice his philosophy with his followers, and that they would all just go their seperate ways in the end. Saradomin and Bandos made it overtly clear this was going to be Zamorak's end - and if it could go further, I'm sure Saradomin would have done his damnedest at ensuring everything associated with Zamorak was wiped from existence as well.

The only way they'd all be walking away in any sort of truce would be if Armadyl had his way, and Saradomin refused to accept Zamorak as anything less than a monster, and Bandos...well, I'm sure he saw the defeated Zamorak as having become weak and in need of killing.

It seems all you care about is "Zimzams has nuke, he gon' nuke ya'll" . But I think it speaks volumes that he quite literally had his hand on the proverbial trigger and still opted to try the reasonable approach. Even if he had tried explaining himself in the past, I doubt they'd have listened then either. If anyone has a vision of what they want the world to be, and offers no middle ground on what's an acceptable worldview, it's Saradomin.

I'm not saying Zamorak is by no means perfect or without fault, but hot damn, I'm not exactly seeing his enemies as really allowing him to have let anything happen differently. .
Did Zamorak know he would survive? He may have tried negotiating less out of altruism and more because he didn't know if he would live. It was his last ditch attempt to save himself.
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

25-Feb-2015 22:02:41 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2015 22:03:33 by Vardan

Dennorak
Jul Member 2020

Dennorak

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Vardan said :
Dennorak said :
My problem with Saradomin is during the cutscene Zamorak is sitting there with the stone, a weapon of mass destruction, and instead of making any effort or letting Armadyl make any effort to talk him down, he only threatens Zamorak with death. So basically Zamorak don;t use the stone so I can kill you? What the hell did Saradomin think Zamorak was going to do?
Saradomin probably was to angry to think clearly. It's not like he was completely without reason to be extremely ****** at Zamorak. The guy killed millions of his followers and the war had devastated the continent. He wanted Zamorak's head and he wanted it now before Zamorak could somehow escape.
Yes I agree he wanted Zamorak's head now but he had to have realized that its going to end with Zamorak using the stone then. If he didn't then it was like you said he wasn't thinking straight but that doesn't excuse the stupidity of Saradomin if he had any interest in trying to avoid the use of the stone.
Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

25-Feb-2015 22:03:38

Vardan

Vardan

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Dennorak said :
Vardan said :
Dennorak said :
My problem with Saradomin is during the cutscene Zamorak is sitting there with the stone, a weapon of mass destruction, and instead of making any effort or letting Armadyl make any effort to talk him down, he only threatens Zamorak with death. So basically Zamorak don;t use the stone so I can kill you? What the hell did Saradomin think Zamorak was going to do?
Saradomin probably was to angry to think clearly. It's not like he was completely without reason to be extremely ****** at Zamorak. The guy killed millions of his followers and the war had devastated the continent. He wanted Zamorak's head and he wanted it now before Zamorak could somehow escape.
Yes I agree he wanted Zamorak's head now but he had to have realized that its going to end with Zamorak using the stone then. If he didn't then it was like you said he wasn't thinking straight but that doesn't excuse the stupidity of Saradomin if he had any interest in trying to avoid the use of the stone.
I'm not sure that COULD have been avoided. Would Zamorak have given up the Stone? The whole war was fought over it and there's no way the others would've let him keep it after all they sacrificed.
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

25-Feb-2015 22:05:33

Dennorak
Jul Member 2020

Dennorak

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Vardan said :
Dennorak said :
Vardan said :
Dennorak said :
My problem with Saradomin is during the cutscene Zamorak is sitting there with the stone, a weapon of mass destruction, and instead of making any effort or letting Armadyl make any effort to talk him down, he only threatens Zamorak with death. So basically Zamorak don;t use the stone so I can kill you? What the hell did Saradomin think Zamorak was going to do?
Saradomin probably was to angry to think clearly. It's not like he was completely without reason to be extremely ****** at Zamorak. The guy killed millions of his followers and the war had devastated the continent. He wanted Zamorak's head and he wanted it now before Zamorak could somehow escape.
Yes I agree he wanted Zamorak's head now but he had to have realized that its going to end with Zamorak using the stone then. If he didn't then it was like you said he wasn't thinking straight but that doesn't excuse the stupidity of Saradomin if he had any interest in trying to avoid the use of the stone.
I'm not sure that COULD have been avoided. Would Zamorak have given up the Stone? The whole war was fought over it and there's no way the others would've let him keep it after all they sacrificed.
Could it have? I think so, I mean Zamorak was trying to talk through it so obviously the stone wasn't his first resort. We won't ever know for sure though because there was never a serious effort to avoid the use of the stone by the gods.
Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

25-Feb-2015 22:08:14

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Vardan said :
Dennorak said :
Vardan said :
Dennorak said :
My problem with Saradomin is during the cutscene Zamorak is sitting there with the stone, a weapon of mass destruction, and instead of making any effort or letting Armadyl make any effort to talk him down, he only threatens Zamorak with death. So basically Zamorak don;t use the stone so I can kill you? What the hell did Saradomin think Zamorak was going to do?
Saradomin probably was to angry to think clearly. It's not like he was completely without reason to be extremely ****** at Zamorak. The guy killed millions of his followers and the war had devastated the continent. He wanted Zamorak's head and he wanted it now before Zamorak could somehow escape.
Yes I agree he wanted Zamorak's head now but he had to have realized that its going to end with Zamorak using the stone then. If he didn't then it was like you said he wasn't thinking straight but that doesn't excuse the stupidity of Saradomin if he had any interest in trying to avoid the use of the stone.
I'm not sure that COULD have been avoided. Would Zamorak have given up the Stone? The whole war was fought over it and there's no way the others would've let him keep it after all they sacrificed.

You don't tell somebody with a bomb strapped to their chest that you are going to kill them. You calm them down, convince them that they can get away safely if they agree to your terms, disarm the bomb, and then deal with person as you see fit regardless of what you promised.

Of course yelling, 'We don't care what you have to say, we are going to kill you because your evil,' is going to make the situation worse. I mean, that's hostage negotiations 101.

25-Feb-2015 22:10:59 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2015 22:11:22 by Hguoh

Vardan

Vardan

Posts: 1,237 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dennorak said :
Vardan said :
Dennorak said :
Vardan said :
Dennorak said :
My problem with Saradomin is during the cutscene Zamorak is sitting there with the stone, a weapon of mass destruction, and instead of making any effort or letting Armadyl make any effort to talk him down, he only threatens Zamorak with death. So basically Zamorak don;t use the stone so I can kill you? What the hell did Saradomin think Zamorak was going to do?
Saradomin probably was to angry to think clearly. It's not like he was completely without reason to be extremely ****** at Zamorak. The guy killed millions of his followers and the war had devastated the continent. He wanted Zamorak's head and he wanted it now before Zamorak could somehow escape.
Yes I agree he wanted Zamorak's head now but he had to have realized that its going to end with Zamorak using the stone then. If he didn't then it was like you said he wasn't thinking straight but that doesn't excuse the stupidity of Saradomin if he had any interest in trying to avoid the use of the stone.
I'm not sure that COULD have been avoided. Would Zamorak have given up the Stone? The whole war was fought over it and there's no way the others would've let him keep it after all they sacrificed.
Could it have? I think so, I mean Zamorak was trying to talk through it so obviously the stone wasn't his first resort. We won't ever know for sure though because there was never a serious effort to avoid the use of the stone by the gods.
Yeah but Zamorak was in a position where he HAD to try to negotiate or preform the equivalent of a final stand. If a truce was made could he have resisted the allure of the Stone? He didn't pass up the chance to restore his power in DAT. I also can't see Saradomin or Bandos passing up the Stone. Maybe Armadyl.
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

25-Feb-2015 22:13:09

Aterivus
Dec Member 2020

Aterivus

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Hguoh said :
Of course yelling, 'We don't care what you have to say, we are going to kill you because your evil,' is going to make the situation worse. I mean, that's hostage negotiations 101.

It's too bad we, The World Guardian, weren't alive back then...we'd make a wonderful negotiator.

I'd also sign-up to be the notary of the the Zaros/Hostillus Eldest Signatory, but that's mostly to see the look on Hostillus' face when he realizes that floating robed guy in front of him is nearly as old as this universe. " All great changes are preceded by chaos. "

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25-Feb-2015 22:20:15

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Raxxess said :
Why would he even care about fighting Zamorak's armies in the Godwars if he all cared about was the stone?
Probably because it was a war and if he didn't fight Zamorak's armies his lands would be overrun and his followers slaughtered. Y'know?

Anyway my point was that during the cutscene he was more focused on the Stone than ending the wars. That's all. Not Saradomin bashing here, he had plenty of reason to be focused on it seeing as how it was about to be used as a nuke. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

25-Feb-2015 22:48:47 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2015 22:51:37 by Raleirosen

Neo Bestia

Neo Bestia

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I'm still perplexed that's seen as a negotiation.

Was Zamorak ever willing to reach an agreement based on the dialogue? I'd wager.

Saradomin had all the reason to want Zamorak's head and viceversa. Zamorak should have expected and probably didn't any different treatment.

Him using the Stone even whrn warned against the high possibility of something bad happening only makes it worse, directing that blame on Saradomin is not only misguided but completely false.

Had Saradomin indeed lied about letting Zamorak go to get the Stone, and succeded, I'm pretty sure we'd see the same people smashing their keyboards writing SARADOMIN IS A LIAR!!@#$#

You just can't please everyone.

26-Feb-2015 01:22:52

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