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Zaros the sociopath

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Lord Pyro I
Nov Member 2018

Lord Pyro I

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Dan-i-el said :
Why would Zaros sacrifice everyone?
If anything, he'd promote mortal life, when he ascends to elder godhood, all he requires mortals to do is simply exist, to generate anima, which then goes into gielinor, which he siphons at a safe rate, as not to damage the planet, or any life on the planet.
If he sacrificed everyone, he'd only create more issues for himself further down the line.
(That is assuming, the elder gods end up being removed somehow, leaving only Zaros).

Besides, lacking emotion does not mean someone is evil, but we have also seen Zaros is not completely devoid of emotion, so, it's all good I guess.

You're assuming the anima goes into Gielinor instead of into the individuals themselves, killing may be required to get at the anima. Worse Zaros may be planning to suggest they farm intelligent races so they can feed from the Anima over time. "The greatest endeavors are achieved because of their selfless intent"
#WarIsComing

09-Nov-2016 20:55:43

Roland Lyons
Mar Member 2014

Roland Lyons

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Zulkir said :
We've known for ages now what he did to Nihils, where was your thread then?

Zaros is driven by logic, not emotion. It made no sense from his standpoint to care for or bother with this failed attempts at creating life on his own, yet this so called sociopath decided that one was worth his time, and gave it a fragment of himself to grant it proper sentient life.
While I believe that often does logic take precedence before emotion, this is my exact problem with Zaros.

It's this very sociopathic manner that he put other beings through so much pain in the nihil experiments and then simply refuses to take any responsibility for his creations, leaving them in a tortured state. At least give the rest of the nihils the courtesy of euthanasia.
I will protect Gielinor. Zaros has no love for its people.

-Saradomin, Polemarchos Autokrator

10-Nov-2016 14:31:07

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Roland Lyons said :
Zulkir said :
We've known for ages now what he did to Nihils, where was your thread then?

Zaros is driven by logic, not emotion. It made no sense from his standpoint to care for or bother with this failed attempts at creating life on his own, yet this so called sociopath decided that one was worth his time, and gave it a fragment of himself to grant it proper sentient life.
While I believe that often does logic take precedence before emotion, this is my exact problem with Zaros.

It's this very sociopathic manner that he put other beings through so much pain in the nihil experiments and then simply refuses to take any responsibility for his creations, leaving them in a tortured state. At least give the rest of the nihils the courtesy of euthanasia.

Tortured state?

As much as I can see the ethical objections in how he made them, you've lost me here.

Try talking to the nihil familiars:

Blood nihil: I was something else once... Actually, I was several something elses once.
Player: Does that make you feel sad?
Blood nihil: No! I am now more than I ever was: I am nihil!
Blood nihil: I have been elevated beyond my base stock by the mighty Zaros. I am sad only because I was once weak.
Blood nihil: You could be improved, also. You could take the wings from aviansie, the strength of the ourg...
Blood nihil: Join me, pitiful human! Cast aside your weakness and ascend to greatness!
Player: I'll pass, thanks.
Blood nihil: Your loss.

Ice nihil: What?
Player: I was just wondering what it was like to be created from bits of other creatures.
Ice nihil: I don't understand. Aren't you created from bits of other creatures?
Player: No, I was born a human.
Ice nihil: Ergh! That's disgusting - you're just one thing! How... How can you live like that?

Every nihil familiar has these two dialogues.

10-Nov-2016 15:32:31 - Last edited on 10-Nov-2016 15:48:33 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Even the smoke nihil (the one that actually hints at the unethical way they were made) doesn't appear to feel tortured:

Smoke nihil: Human... I have a memory that is not mine.
Player: What do you mean?
Smoke nihil: It is a memory of a world filled with turmoil and great storms.
Smoke nihil: I can feel the wind beneath my wings, I can remember soaring across great floating islands.
Smoke nihil: Then something...something horrible happened.
Player: What?
Smoke nihil: I do not remember.
Smoke nihil: *Hiss* Enough of that. That was another life, and I am more than what I was now. I am nihil!

And honestly, the fallen nihil's dialogue indicates that its grudge against Zaros comes from being deemed a failure by Zaros, rather than the methods Zaros used to make it.

Player: What are you?
Fallen Nihil: A failed experiment. Considered unworthy. Incredibly angry. Redeemed by Fire.
Player: It sounds like you've got a pretty large grudge against someone.
Fallen Nihil: That's not even the half of it.

10-Nov-2016 15:37:10 - Last edited on 10-Nov-2016 15:49:16 by Hguoh

The Mather1
May Member 2008

The Mather1

Posts: 1,172 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Pyro I said :
Dan-i-el said :
Why would Zaros sacrifice everyone?
If anything, he'd promote mortal life, when he ascends to elder godhood, all he requires mortals to do is simply exist, to generate anima, which then goes into gielinor, which he siphons at a safe rate, as not to damage the planet, or any life on the planet.
If he sacrificed everyone, he'd only create more issues for himself further down the line.
(That is assuming, the elder gods end up being removed somehow, leaving only Zaros).

Besides, lacking emotion does not mean someone is evil, but we have also seen Zaros is not completely devoid of emotion, so, it's all good I guess.

You're assuming the anima goes into Gielinor instead of into the individuals themselves, killing may be required to get at the anima. Worse Zaros may be planning to suggest they farm intelligent races so they can feed from the Anima over time.
No, that is how anima works. We've known this longer than we've even known what anima was.

All living things produce anima, which is absorbed by the planet and in turn makes it more fertile.

We know this because the Spirit trees use this flow of anima to communicate between themselves, because this is the cycle we find evidence of having been used for technology on Chantli (what is now Mazcab) and because our presence on Freneskae fueled Freneskae's Heart, and in turn fed Mah enough to give her the energy to awaken from her millennia of coma.
"Abscondita est in Astra."

10-Nov-2016 19:45:04

Hguoh

Hguoh

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ZAmorakZaros said :
Hguoh said :

Blood nihil: No! I am now more than I ever was: I am nihil!
Remind me about what nihil meant. :P

Given they speak the common tongue (and, again, are generally not sentient) I doubt they realize the irony in what they are saying.

Then again, they could be pulling something along the lines of the Socrates' response to the Oracle at Delphi.

For those who don't know, the Oracle is said to have stated that none are wiser than Socrates, to which Socrates responded, 'what I do not know, I do not think to know.' In other words, he believed the Oracle's words meant that he was the wisest because he alone recognized and acknowledged his lack of knowledge.

In the case of the nihil it could be that in recognizing themselves as nothing of particular significance, the nihil believe that they are inherently better than those who presume they have a greater significance (aka: everybody else is less than nothing for doing this).

I suspect it is the former rather than the latter, given they advise the player to replace physical traits with those of other species (essentially telling the player to become a nihil).

10-Nov-2016 19:56:12 - Last edited on 10-Nov-2016 23:45:29 by Hguoh

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Hguoh said :

For those who don't know, the Oracle is said to have stated that none are wiser than Socrates, to which Socrates responded, 'what I do not know, I do not think to know.' In other words, he believed the Oracle's words meant that he was the wisest because he alone recognized and acknowledged his lack of knowledge.


Not sure I totally agree with this. There is the element of him being careful of not thinking to know what he cannot know. (What he cannot know is untruth). So unlike most others he does not think he knows stuff that's not true. However this doesn't rule out him knowing anything at all. It means everything he thinks he knows is true.

Remember that this is Plato speaking through Socrates. Platonic belief is that the soul in fact knows all truths, and that learning is simply recollection. (See Phaedo).

Now in the Symposium, Socrates claims he knows nothing but the act of loving. Of course by the end of the play Socrates demonstrates that the act of truly loving is to practice philosophy and ascertain knowledge. Thus Socrates is actually claiming is that all he knows is how to acquire knowledge, as opposed to others who acquire things other than knowledge.

So I have to disagree.

10-Nov-2016 22:07:57

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