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Armadyl

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Summerleaf
Nov Member 2012

Summerleaf

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Unicornz pwn said :
Summerleaf said :
Unicornz pwn said :
Padomenes said :
Unicornz pwn said :
Good storytelling includes naturally occurring diversity, and I think there's a middle ground to be found. And I think Jagex has done a pretty good job with it so far, it never seems forced, so in that regard I think Ascertes has a point, but his concern is completely hypothetical, because I've yet to see them sacrifice the story for diversity, and I hope that continues.
Your "middle ground" is "as long as they are kept very few".

Could you please state how storytelling in this game would be ruined by the introduction of more people of color being introduced, or an LGBT character coming out?

I never said that it should be kept few, I said it should never be done at the expense of the story. By that logic there are countless opportunities for inclusion.

I also said I've yet to see diversity lead to harm to storytelling in this game, and people like Mod Raven do it masterfully, so you really don't have a point to argue other than virtue signaling at this point.


If it's never ruined anything yet, then why even bring it up?

These people have been making this game for 15 years. If they were going to ruin it through diversity, they would have done so by now.

I was merely defending Ascertes' initial point against a more radical backlash, he said nothing wrong, or inherently phobic.

You're free to write this all off as self hating musings, but I like to think you're more open minded than that.

But if you think saying I have nothing against inclusion I just don't think it should be forced is phobic, then perhaps you really aren't.


I think we're both agreeing on the same point, just interpreting it weirdly.

21-Dec-2016 06:41:49

Padomenes

Padomenes

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Unicornz pwn said :
But if you think saying I have nothing against inclusion I just don't think it should be forced is phobic, then perhaps you really aren't.
Define what you perceive as "forced".

21-Dec-2016 06:43:16 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2016 06:48:52 by Padomenes

Ascertes

Ascertes

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Summerleaf said :

Snip.


Okay. Time out. Allow me to rephrase: Armadyl being gay/bi enhances his character and makes him, imo, a better one. Has nothing to do with conforming to his already existing characteristics.

And I think its a shame because I thought it was a nice little glitch people could use to get same-sex relationships with the prince/princess. Ironically, you lost that with Astrid when they updated it.


Padomenes said :
Just because Armadyl has certain characteristics aka acts gender nonconformist in some ways does not mean you should suggest they are all associated with gays.


See above.
-Ascertes, King of all the Hallowlands and the Everchosen of Saradomin.

21-Dec-2016 06:45:28

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21-Dec-2016 06:46:20

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

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@Elf

Probably, I was giving value to both sides, just drawing a line at the more extreme views. Apologies if it came across as being a wanton devil's advocate.

TL;DR Diversity is good. Good storytelling can have diversity. Forced diversity tokenizes minorities imo, but I don't see diversity leading to any problems in this story. Runescape is far from Ghostbusters. :p
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

21-Dec-2016 06:46:30

Summerleaf
Nov Member 2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ascertes said :
Summerleaf said :

Snip.


Okay. Time out. Allow me to rephrase: Armadyl being gay/bi enhances his character and makes him, imo, a better one. Has nothing to do with conforming to his already existing characteristics.

And I think its a shame because I thought it was a nice little glitch people could use to get same-sex relationships with the prince/princess. Ironically, you lost that with Astrid when they updated it.


Padomenes said :
Just because Armadyl has certain characteristics aka acts gender nonconformist in some ways does not mean you should suggest they are all associated with gays.


See above.


Ummm... I married Prince Brand, dear. I planned ahead. I walked up in that castle in full drag and married that boy. (Courtesy of the Makeover Mage, and Solomon's General Store)

21-Dec-2016 06:49:29

Ascertes

Ascertes

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Summerleaf said :

Ummm... I married Prince Brand, dear. I planned ahead. I walked up in that castle in full drag and married that boy. (Courtesy of the Makeover Mage, and Solomon's General Store)


Yes, and now your changes are recognized. In Astrid's case, you can't have a same-sex relationship. Before, those changes weren't recognized and you could have same-sex with both. Now only one. That's why I thought it was a shame.
-Ascertes, King of all the Hallowlands and the Everchosen of Saradomin.

21-Dec-2016 06:52:26

Summerleaf
Nov Member 2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ascertes said :
Summerleaf said :

Ummm... I married Prince Brand, dear. I planned ahead. I walked up in that castle in full drag and married that boy. (Courtesy of the Makeover Mage, and Solomon's General Store)


Yes, and now your changes are recognized. In Astrid's case, you can't have a same-sex relationship. Before, those changes weren't recognized and you could have same-sex with both. Now only one. That's why I thought it was a shame.


Ah, well, it is very late, and I am very tired, and I get angered quickly when it comes to disenfranchising minorities, so probably we should all work on wording things a bit clearer.

21-Dec-2016 06:58:13

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Unicornz pwn said :
Hazeel said :
I have no qualms with this. With Armadyl it makes sense, you can sorta see it a mile away. I only didn't like it with Angof because it came out of the blue and feels like it was put there for the sake of "diversity" and nothing else.

I am all for having an accurate character cast that reflects reality, but feeding representation politics is something I cannot stand for.

I agree about Amradyl, but really? The shapeshifter of all things being trans was shocking? :p


Well a little surprising at the time, but that's not the issue. The issue is that Armadyl was introduced as a character and was later shown to be gay. It's just one of his character traits and that's it. That's fine.

Angof was introduced as a transgender character...and that's sorta what he's known for...just being that transgender elf. That's a poor way to handle it, I feel, I don't think someone's sexual status is one of the first things we should be introduced to.

Padomenes said :
So you admit having characters that are people of color, LGBTI or whom don't conform to gender role expectations "ruins everything"?


I did not say that and I'm not dealing with your closed minded SJW nonsense.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

21-Dec-2016 07:01:54

Summerleaf
Nov Member 2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Ascertes

Ok I went back and reread stuff, and I misread you original post about the shame thing, so I apologize for that.

I did call you out a bit harshly on the next part, but I stand by that you shouldn't assume someone's identity based on their personality, and you should still let people celebrate when they get representation.

I also stand by what I told Unicornz Pwn in that, it's been 15 years. If they were going to ruin the game via diversity, they would have done it by now.

But, for the most part, I think we agree on most else.

Except Saradomin. He should be put to death.

21-Dec-2016 07:03:13

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