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Sir Brad
Nov Member 2023

Sir Brad

Posts: 3,049 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
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Paying membership is not RWT. Its a payment to play the game i with extra futures on member designed servers.
Bonds are RWT. Its trading real cash for in game currency.

It isn't RWT because you are not buying via a third party.

Third-parties have nothing to do with it.

RWT = Real World Trading : Trading REAL WORLD money for in-game items.
" Perseverance in honor brings invariable order. " - The White Knights of Falador
Sir Brad

27-Sep-2013 18:22:39

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
No, that's not what RWT is.

But unfortunately, people are going to keep saying so no matter how many times it is explained to them that RWT is people who do not own the in-game content (money, items, accounts, etc.) selling it for real-world money.

This persistent misunderstanding of the realities of what RWT is also is one of the reasons Jagex simply has to act (as in introducing bonds into the game) without soliciting player feedback. Players are going to keep missing the point no matter how many times it is explained to them.

27-Sep-2013 18:30:46 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2013 18:33:26 by Mystic Monad

Nick 1

Nick 1

Posts: 2,684 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Original message details are unavailable.
Original message details are unavailable.
Paying membership is not RWT. Its a payment to play the game i with extra futures on member designed servers.
Bonds are RWT. Its trading real cash for in game currency.

It isn't RWT because you are not buying via a third party.

Third-parties have nothing to do with it.

RWT = Real World Trading : Trading REAL WORLD money for in-game items.

The player does that. Jagex does not do that.

Stop being mad at yourself.

27-Sep-2013 18:30:56

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
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This is a really good idea :)

Hope most players are smart enuff to see all the good sides in Bonds.

As much as I'm not crazy about bonds and why they had to be introduced into the game, they do have some nice features.

Probably the best is that many people who could never be members before because of their family or financial circumstances will finally be able to enjoy the members game. I think that's going to bring joy to a lot of people--including members with good friends who have always had to stay f2p. Now they'll be able to do stuff together in-game that they could never do together before.

Speaking of which, I'm sure Jagex is intentionally making it more expensive to buy membership through bonds than by buying it directly. Bonds are not meant to be the primary way people buy membership, but an alternative method for those who can't or don't want to buy membership directly. The financial incentive is still to buy membership directly rather than through bonds.

27-Sep-2013 20:20:53

Nihilus7

Nihilus7

Posts: 16 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If Jagex really wanted to offer membership for GP value they could have implemented an NPC who would do the conversion, and it would have avoided all this discussion. The problem lies in the fact that the initial point of entry for this item to appear on the market has a cost of 5$, which means bonds instantly have that dollar value associated with it.

Had they gone the route of an NPC who offered the same rewards a bond offers for GP then they could charge some crazy amount while still making it seem like its fair. The also could have achieved on of their goals: Remove gold from circulation.

Now because bonds don't offer any value to the player who purchased it in the first place (ie. If I buy a bond and also redeem it I'd actual lose money) that means the only true value that can be obtained from these items is their dollar to gp exchange rate.

At the end of the day there are only two things that separate this from gold sellers. One they own the intellectual property to the game (who really cares about that), and two they've created an infinite resource with 0 farming time.

27-Sep-2013 20:59:01 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2013 21:01:00 by Nihilus7

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Of course bonds offer benefits to the people who initially buy them. Otherwise nobody would by them.

The main benefits they offer to those who purchase them are:

1. The ability to trade them for in-game money and items
2. The ability to trade them to friends in-game so that f2p friends can become members

It's the first one that's got people all up in arms. But without that, they would have no effect against gold farmers.

27-Sep-2013 21:07:19 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2013 21:10:45 by Mystic Monad

Nihilus7

Nihilus7

Posts: 16 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This system doesn't have any effect on gold farmers as it is.

Lets look at your second point to explain why this is so, and it doing so it should explain why the first point doesn't achieve anything either.

You wish to give your friend some membership time, and to do so you've chosen the method of purchasing bonds directly from Jagex. So you've made a deal for 14 days membership for 5$.

If they're a good and trusted friend why could you not log onto their account and enter your credit card info? At least then you wouldn't have to renew as often for them, and you'd earn them an extra 2 days and save 2$.

If you're worried about credit card info why not buy them a time card and give them the code? If you buy the 3 day card you'd still spend the same amount as buying 2 bonds from Jagex, but you'd at least get 2 extra days from it. If you went with the 90 day card then you could save ~5-10$ and +/- about 7 days.

Now lets say credit cards are out and so are time cards. You could purchase ~15mil for 5.75$ which comes out to about 2.6mil/$ from gp sellers. The current GE price is insane and I could purchase a bond for at least 6mil. If I spend the time I might even find some for 5mil. That means the value of buying a bond from jagex is 1mil/$ to 1.2mil/$ (pretty obvious who offers the better deal already). So I could purchase 2 to 3 bonds and all I'm paying is an extra 75¢, or in other words I'm saving 4.25$ on the second bond and maybe even getting a third for free.

The only way this maintains any sort of value is if I purchase a bond with GP only. OK great we've found someone who benefits from these bonds. Who else benefits from bonds... Jagex benefits from bonds. But the people who purchase the bonds from Jagex, the ones who are gears and make this system turn, do not get any benefit from this system. In truth they're just some unfortunate shmoe.

To speak to the 'remove gp from circulation' campaign an NPC that offered these rewards for gp would have been enough.

27-Sep-2013 22:05:21 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2013 22:09:06 by Nihilus7

iozay

iozay

Posts: 4,177 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am not against this but it changed my opinion regarding RWT a bit. Until now I saw RWT as something evil but to me this feels also a bit like RWT myself, which makes me feel "perfectly alright" with the idea of selling ingame money for real life money(As long it is gained by legitimate playing).

I have never done this and will most likely not use bonds. But please remember that this changes how players view RWT and might also convert people to do so(Considering Jagex effectively started with it).

I do however like the idea that it gives a hit to botters/hackers. But please note that I am note a fan of any form of RWT and will never feel like it is a good idea. Personally I am more a fan of removing free trade again ^^ Worked perfect if you ask me! :)

27-Sep-2013 22:22:43

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