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Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
@mystic monad.
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The Old Rules on Real-World Trading
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What is real-world trading?

Real-world trading is the term used for the real-world purchase of services with the intention of advancing your Jagex character. This includes, but is not limited to: purchasing gold or items in Runescape, buying a Runescape account as well as paying someone to increase your account** experience(XP) in a skill or for them to complete quests and activates on your behalf.


Why do we have this rule?

We have this rule for two reasons:

1. We don’t want players to be able to buy their way to success in Runescape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues Runescape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn’t affect your ability to be successful in Runescape. "
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I would like to call bonds rtw but you can call it micro-transactions or what ever, I really couldn't care less. You can call it what ever you want but it doesn't change the fact that bonds allows people to get an in game advantage due to great irl wealth, something that is clearly something that jagex have been against for the last 12 years, you can't tell me that you think this isn't worng.

Please look at the last post on page 159 of this thread for my response about the quoted rules of Runescape.

Paid membership does precisely what you are calling RWT here: it gives in-game advantage due to irl wealth. (Not all people can afford the monthly membership rates, believe it or not!) And yet, nobody calls that RWT.

Whether we like bonds or not, it is still not RWT.

27-Sep-2013 17:50:11

Dark Fury

Dark Fury

Posts: 1,350 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Arr! Yer game be dying, Jagex!

35,781 Players Online Now

What are ye gonna do about er, huh?

Yer game's goin' the route of Whiskey Wars now, eh?
You peer into a Chapel of Zamorak, which appears to be abandoned. Before you can close the doors again, a Revenant Chaos-Bringer flies at you and slays you instantly with a bolt of Shadow Lightning. Oh dear! You are dead!

27-Sep-2013 17:50:56

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
@mystic monad.
I would like to call bonds rtw but you can call it micro-transactions or what ever, I really couldn't care less. You can call it what ever you want but it doesn't change the fact that bonds allows people to get an in game advantage due to great irl wealth, something that is clearly something that jagex have been against for the last 12 years, you can't tell me that you think this isn't worng.

Personally, I don't like it very much. I'd rather the game were kept free (beyond membership fees) from the influence of real-world wealth.

And that's precisely what Jagex wanted, too--and did its best to achieve ever since RS hit the big time.

Unfortunately, it was swimming against a massive tide of actual RWT that it could not beat, despite herculean efforts to do so. No matter how much you or I or Jagex or anyone else dislikes it, and no matter how hard Jagex tries, they are simply not going to be able to stem the tide of people buying RSGP for real-world money. You can't ban 40-50% of your players and still have a functioning and economically viable game.

My own opinion is that Jagex has made the most conservative "deal with the devil" that it can make. It has maintained as much of the integrity of the game as it can in the face of a world of actual, flawed human beings who, like it or not, are driven by money and profit, and who have a financial incentive to break the law, flout RS rules, and illegally sell intellectual property that they do not own.

Jagex has finally faced the reality that despite massive amounts of money and human resources thrown at the problem, they simply can't stop people from buying RSGP for real money.

So they have provided an alternative that breaks no laws and is therefore not RWT, and that indirectly allows people to purchase in-game GP and items through legitimate channels in a way that is not so corrupting of the game and the RS economy.

27-Sep-2013 17:59:04 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2013 18:24:17 by Mystic Monad

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So do I like it? No. Do I think it's good? Not really.

But I think, given the realities of human nature, it is the best we're going to get if we want Runescape to survive and thrive into the future. On that, I agree with MMG.

And let's be clear: Jagex is not selling RSGP or items for real-world money. It is selling for real-world money an in-game item that can be traded for in-game items (not to mention membership and some other game-related benefits).

This may seem like a trivial distinction, but its effects are massive.

If Jagex directly sold in-game money, it would cause massive inflation as money created out of thin air flooded into the game, completely unbalancing the RS economy and practically forcing players to purchase RSGP with real-world money in order to afford the equipment and supplies they want.

If Jagex directly sold in-game items (without selling in-game GP), it would have the reverse effect (massive deflation), causing monster drops to become hardly worth the time and effort.

If it sold both, it would cause the in-game economy to be practically irrelevant, as people could just buy whatever they wanted without anyone having to actually play the game at all.

As it is, Jagex has created an in-game item that has no use in itself, but can be traded to other players, either directly or via the GE, for money and items already in the RS economy. This item does not create money (it actually takes some money out of the economy via the 10% tax--which I doubt is a good idea). It does not create items. All money and items must still be produced by players playing the game.

That is why I think bonds are probably the least disruptive way that Jagex can fight the RWTers on their own ground without completely destroying the game.

In short: It's a compromise. And the best compromises are when nobody is completely happy, but everyone gets at least something of what they want. Everyone, that is, except the gold farmers.

27-Sep-2013 17:59:21 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2013 18:10:09 by Mystic Monad

Loopy Cow

Loopy Cow

Posts: 61 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Paying membership is not RWT. Its a payment to play the game i with extra futures on member designed servers.
Bonds are RWT. Its trading real cash for in game currency.

It isn't RWT because you are not buying via a third party.

27-Sep-2013 18:13:11

Chezni3
Oct Member 2023

Chezni3

Posts: 404 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
We are not as stupid and naive as you seem to think. Many of our players are not only college grads, but hold Phds. Some of those even in the dreaded subject of Statistis. We also have some math happy people playing and straight A students, accountants, business men and women, service men and women, philanthropists, and developers even. You get my point by now.

So, I am sure some of those can explain the "complicated" process of how you came to the numbers to slander 40 to 50 percent of your player base to our simple little minds that can't understand the brilliance of those that accuse them.

I am asking that you post your data, and let those that can decipher it for the rest of us that can't seem to even put our pants on in the morning.

I hold a bachelor's degree and what are pants?

Seriously though, support for sharing some of that data with us. 50% seems dubious to me.

27-Sep-2013 18:18:05

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Paying membership is not RWT. Its a payment to play the game i with extra futures on member designed servers.
Bonds are RWT. Its trading real cash for in game currency.

Membership makes it possible to acquire both exp and in-game items much faster and easier than they can be gained without membership. And it is something that players pay for. Though there are distinct servers for members and non-members, they are intertwined economically, as non-members provide goods and services that members use and benefit from. Via the GE and via members logging into non-member servers and trading / playing with non-members, it is a single game, not two separate games. And paying real-world money for RS membership provides huge in-game benefits for those who can afford it. (Not everyone can.)

Still, I agree with you that paid membership is not RWT, because Jagex cannot, by the real, legal definition of RWT, engage in RWT.

Even if bonds were trading real cash for in-game currency, it would still not be RWT. But see my previous post. Bonds are a whole different animal than being able to directly exchange real-world money for in-game currency.

27-Sep-2013 18:20:28 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2013 18:21:22 by Mystic Monad

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