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Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,172 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Im A Realtor

If you see me log into game today send me a PM and we will work together to resolve your issue.

Yes Forum Moderation Review is the best way forward as 2 F-Mods and others have said but in this case I can work with you to help you out.

Chat soon.

NexOrigin said :
So... can Realtor recreate the thread with the changes made, as I suggested he ask in FH?

He has no need to remake it as it can be unlocked and edited. It will save a lot of work. ;) Comprehensive Account Security
What do snowmen have for breakfast? Snowflakes! :P

17-Dec-2020 12:22:17 - Last edited on 17-Dec-2020 12:23:20 by Tuffty

im a Realtor

im a Realtor

Posts: 68 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tuffty:

I appreciate your quick response and willingness to work with me. Unfortunately I won’t be on much today.

My main reason for wanting to edit rather than start over is the formatting that I wouldn’t be able to capture via copy paste. However, if the thread is rule compliant if the entrance fee is removed, I don’t mind recreating the thread—removing reference to an entrance fee—on my own time.

17-Dec-2020 13:28:02

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,172 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Im A Realtor

The only bit of your thread that I hid was you charging others to join. Sadly this has been a long standing policy of the forums to not have a enterence fee.

I've no issues with a remake. I've no issues with unlocking it at your request. I can even unhide the post I hid so you could edit that too.

It's upto you. What ever you want I'll be happy with.

Also to help you out a little. If you make a request on the Forum Help V2. and tell the F-Mods I gave permission to unlock it and unhide the hidden post it will be done for you. Thats incase we miss each other today. ;) Comprehensive Account Security
What do snowmen have for breakfast? Snowflakes! :P

17-Dec-2020 15:09:07 - Last edited on 17-Dec-2020 15:14:36 by Tuffty

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 2,592 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tuffty said :
The only bit of your thread that I hid was you charging others to join. Sadly this has been a long standing policy of the forums to not have a enterence fee. Am I missing that rule somewhere? I don't see it anywhere that I've looked.

I checked the Rules of RuneScape too, and while "trust trades" are mentioned, they're not prohibited, Jagex simply "strongly advise against them".

Is this in relation to the "Player Run Games of Chance" rule? Trust trading is mentioned under that rule, although again, it's not mentioned as being prohibited.

Is it because more than one person is competing?

I mean, you're allowed to bet on something you're competing for, aren't you?

You're just not allowed to bet on random outcomes (dicing) and something other people are competing for (commission staking)?

Is it different if there are more than two people competing against each other?

Like, can Group A and Group B have a snowball fight, and bet on the outcome? Is that allowed?

You can bet on a footrace, can't you? Like, 1 vs. 1? What's if it's a Group A vs. Group B in a footrace? Is that allowed?

If that's even the policy you're referring to?


Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to make sure I know what's allowed and what isn't. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

17-Dec-2020 15:41:25

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,172 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@NexOrigin

It's 1 of them unwritten rules where you can't chage an enterence fee to an event such as for example a boxing match where winner takes all or a snowball fight where you get charged 1m per person. Again winner takes all.

It's been on the forums for years. It might not be in b&w on the forums but it still falls under the Trust Trade rules which are still active within these forums.

It might not be in the Rules. It might not be in the CoC. It's still a rule of thumb though that enterence fees can't be charged.

It's the same with selling RS names. They are also a trust trade and threads are locked. Very few types of threads these days are locked for trust trades but the enterence fee and selling rs names do get locked.

I know you don't like lose ends and like everything in b&w sadly at this time there is nothing in b&w to show these rules that I can show you. You just need to take my word for it that this is a rule of the forum thats been around for years.

PS. It used to be in the Forum Rules and CoC but over the years they have shrunk that much they were removed. ;)

Hope that helps. Comprehensive Account Security
What do snowmen have for breakfast? Snowflakes! :P

17-Dec-2020 15:58:33 - Last edited on 17-Dec-2020 16:03:54 by Tuffty

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 2,592 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tuffty said :
I know you don't like lose ends and like everything in b&w Yeah, I'm not a fan of invisible rules. They're hard to learn. ^_^

Tuffty said :
PS. It used to be in the Forum Rules and CoC but over the years they have shrunk that much they were removed. ;) Are you sure they weren't removed from the rules, because they weren't rules anymore? :P


Tuffty said :
Hope that helps. It does. Somewhat. I appreciate it. :)

But just so there are no JMods jumping out from behind trees shouting "Aha! Gotcha!" in the game when I least expect it... the "winner takes all" rule, is that just a forum rule, or is that a game rule as well?

Like, is it just the advertising of it in the forums that's an issue, or does it somehow violate the "Player Run Games of Chance" rule as well? I mean, you're basically betting on your own skill, but, at the same time, you're betting on teammates skills as well. Is there a ruling on that at all? I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

17-Dec-2020 17:10:38

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,172 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Are you sure they weren't removed from the rules, because they weren't rules anymore?


Yes I'm sure. :P

It's the adverising on the forums thats the main issue. Nothing stopping people addressing it in a FC/CC though.

Games of chance is tricky as it covers 100's of things. So flower, dice, hot+cold and others etc were all banned and for good reason. Thats a P-Mod thingy though and I can't blab. :P You get the idea though. The category for reporting Games of Chance is self explanatory really. Don't often see much of it in game these days. ;)

Any more questions I'll catch tomorrow. Have a good evening. ;) Comprehensive Account Security
What do snowmen have for breakfast? Snowflakes! :P

17-Dec-2020 17:34:36

im a Realtor

im a Realtor

Posts: 68 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Tuffty @Nexogen

This discussion has been helpful. Thank you. I too looked for the b&w and came up empty. But of course it makes sense that not everything can be spelled out...

still, though,

QUOTE:

Are you sure they weren't removed from the rules, because they weren't rules anymore? :P

I'd be interested to know this too. Is there a forum we could request a decision on this question? The game changes and the rules change with it. Surely some unwritten rules change as well. At what point do mods enforce these unwritten/vestigial rules more out of habit than to meet some policy objective?


@Tuffty

I really really do appreciate your responsiveness. The only reason I brought up the rule bit in my initial request was because in your message to me when you locked my thread you stated that "the rules are there for all to see"

But I actually tried my best to educate myself on the rules before posting. And I again looked after reading your message. This is why I asked for clarification/direction.

In any event, it would be easier for me to edit the existing thread. Please delete as much as you feel necessary and unlock.


EDIT: My first inclination was to change the fee structure to a 100% optional donation basis. Would that be acceptable? No mandatory entrance fees.

P.S. sorry for taking up so much of your time! Appreciate your attention to this matter

17-Dec-2020 17:51:20 - Last edited on 17-Dec-2020 17:53:55 by im a Realtor

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 2,592 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tuffty said :
Are you sure they weren't removed from the rules, because they weren't rules anymore?


Yes I'm sure. :P lol



Tuffty said :
The category for reporting Games of Chance is self explanatory really. It was just the "It is also against the rules to bet on the outcome of another player's activities within the game" line in the rules that threw me for a moment. Obviously it refers to commission staking, but, then I started to wonder how far that actually extends. Is betting on your team considered betting "on the outcome of another player's activities"?

On one hand, I mean, you're playing as part of a team, but, I guess on the other hand, if the team is comprised of people you don't know, it could be a rigged competition (the way many commission stakes were).

Obviously if I'm on your team, you're probably not gonna want to bet on your team... but theoretically speaking... I dunno. It's a hard call for me to make. I was just curious if you had any idea.

Tuffty said :
Any more questions I'll catch tomorrow. Have a good evening. ;) Thanks dude, I appreciate it. :) I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

17-Dec-2020 17:55:34

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