RuneScape Forum Archive | Wilderness and Free Trade Vote

Angel Austin

Posts: 853 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Still, if people die in wilderness they will complain about it like usual, but free trade i have no problem with, but wilderness is a different *tory. As i was saying the wilderness is dangerous i know, and some people don't like pking but why bring wilderness back when people don't go to the wilderness that much anymore. but sorry for asking these questions. Also Ill be glad free trade will be coming out, going to be very exciting.

20-Jan-2011 00:15:57

Phthartic

Posts: 1,730 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mystic--
I wish you could explain economics to *ahem* current US leaders, but no politics here....
I just think (as my final stroke on the dead horse) that if you and others that similarly admit the voting was not "well handled" shall we say, but still seem to think it was ** big deal were to engage in the following thought experiment your opinions would be substantially different:
Imagine the exact same polls/petitions/votes were conducted using the identical methodologies, but this time the question at issue was "Should we ban [insert your favorite thing to do in RS here]?" Let's say they proposed banning merchanting (forgetting the impossibility of that) or hiring others to run essence for you.
Allow me to vote your name "yes" for you as before. Allow people so fanatically against your chosen activity to make multiple new accounts to vote "yes" as before. Let the vote tallys immediately (within an hour or two) set themselves at 92% "yes" and 8% "no" and stay there for the whole time, etc**** infinitum. (I'll leave it to you to consider all the other evidence we've been presenting on this thread of the obvious gross defects in the votes and objectively apply it to this imaginary vote.)
Whaddya think now, eh?

20-Jan-2011 00:41:22

May

2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Phthartic,
Jagex never would have conducted the vote in the first place if there hadn't been continuing requests, pressure, ranting, etc., from large numbers of users for nearly three full years, ever since free trade and the old wildy were taken out of the game, to bring them back.
So there's not much of a comparison to those other (admittedly hypothetical) issues that have generated nowhere near as much verbiage from Jagex's customers (the players).
What other issue has generated anywhere near as much player response as the old wildy and free trade have ever since they were removed from the game? I just don't see any real parallels to other possible changes to the game that Jagex might conduct a player poll about.
Also, all ranters to the contrary, Jagex is not so stupid as to attempt to do things that are impossible. And they do seem to have some slight knowledge of game mechanics, economics, and so on, with which to evaluate potential major changes to the game and decide which ones are even worth pursuing.

I will say that when the first vote was conducted, I thought it was a crock. Only allowing yes votes? Just plain silly. But at that time we did not know that there would be another, more sensible vote.
The second vote was a more proper vote. And the percentages stayed almost the same from the early stages of the vote simply because players voted fairly consistently on the pro, con, and don't care sides of the issue right from the start. There actually was a shift late in the voting from 90% to 91% pro, and from 3% to 2% don't care.
At any rate, the consistency of the results from early on in the voting does not in any way invalidate the results. It just shows that people voted in about the same proportions consistently throughout the voting period.
Or do you think Jagex really *is* engaging in a massive, dastardly conspiracy to bring back the old wildy and free trade?

20-Jan-2011 03:14:12

Jul

2022

Bigbird8 0

Posts: 28 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I know this is a very late rant but here goes..
Jagex may not be very worried about botters and other things that may happen because of the return of the wilderness, but bring back wilderness and freetrade together? surely Jagex could have fixed something to where drop trades, scamming, or "giving gifts" that give unfair advantages to certain players(mostly those who know ppl that have been playing since before 2005. I'm curious, was this not a concern? Was the communities opinion on this not important? I mean yeah ok cool a lot of players are going to love having the old style pking back but what about the players who are going to have to worry about how they make money? Or the less fortunate players who are going to be victim to prices because the rich in the runescape community will be controling prices? Yeah this is a game but still player dont wanna be practicaly bullied into paying the prices clans or rich players order them to pay. Where is the concern for trading jagex?

20-Jan-2011 05:13:27

Phthartic

Posts: 1,730 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If I'm being honest, most questions in life I'm asked I would answer with a list of probabilities. Do I REALLY think the votes were pure fictions; the counters just displays of a script that had nothing to do with the actual results? 95% No. But again I say that the obvious dishonesty of the votes leaves me that 5% uncertain. Before these votes I would've said with 99.5% certainty that a Jagex poll was trustworthy.
My thought experiment has nothing to do with the similarity between my hypotheticals and the real issue; only to ask one to try to think more objectively about the likelihood that an honest pollster would construct a real poll in such a fashion, and sorry but the objective answer is no. If our two positions were reversed you would be arguing my side and I wouldn't disagree with you.
I have no doubt that they have been endlessly pestered to bring back these features, but as they admitted, they weren't sure if the people nagging them were representative of the player population at large or an "extremely vocal minority."
Obviously, their first decision was to satisfy the naggers (a portion of their customers). Once that had been decided, they obviously wanted to mollify the rest of the players by allowing them to "see" how in the minority they were. They obviously suspected that the supporters might not be a majority, so everything was designed to ensure the yes vote faction would prevail.
This is the only rational scenario that explains how they could have designed the polls so incorrectly. Whether they knew "yes" voters were a big majority, or they really wanted an honest answer, in either case they would have designed the poll to their normal specifications without all those bugs.
BTW, people are permanently banned for abusing more subtle bugs in the game than the ones in the votes that people abused like crazy and openly encouraged others to abuse on this very thread, yet these abusers were not only tolerated by Jagex but encouraged.

20-Jan-2011 05:40:05

Oct

2019

Peat Moss

Posts: 1 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I guess the telling tail lies in the fact that the lowest population servers are almost always the PvP and Bounty Hunter worlds. Granted the rules there aren't quite the same as the old open combat Wilderness but it seems odd that the minority of people choose those types of worlds for the past few years, yet the vote was so lopsided in "their" favor.
I happen to like the Grand Exchange as it is, bring back free trade if you want, but leave the GE intact.
I'm not looking forward to dodging pk'rs at the entrance teleport to the Abyss either.

20-Jan-2011 11:37:41

Kara Danvers

Posts: 3,032 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

There is no escape. There is no excuse.
Bringing Free Trade back is inviting the return of Real World Trading.
I shall stand by this statement, and I issue my challenge to anyone who could give a single legit counter argument.

May Guthix smite the most despictable scum scurrying across the fair land of Gielinor who also go by the name of Real World Traders.

May Guthix bring you balance,
VoidKnightsc

20-Jan-2011 11:52:23

May

2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Phthartic,
Most of your complaints about the vote seem to center around the first vote, which only allowed a yes vote and had other serious problems such as no account name security.
On the second vote, the so-called "referendum," I just don't see all the bugs and irregularities that you mention. It required full sign-in, had options for yes, no, and don't mind either way, and was conducted over a reasonable period of time.
Yet both in your post and in many other detractors' posts I see continual confounding of the first and second votes.
As I've said before, when the first vote came out, I thought it had serious problems. I could hardly believe Jagex was conducting such a weird, rigged vote. But when I realized it was never intended to be a final vote, but just a gauge as to whether a real vote should be held, I was willing to suspend judgment and see how the real vote was conducted.
And I just don't see any major problem with the real vote and its procedures.
As for conspiracy theories of Jagex rigging the vote in order to do what it wanted to do all along, quite frankly, I think that idea is just plain silly. Companies that don't respond to and serve their customers go out of business. Why would Jagex rig a vote in order to do something most of its customers didn't want done? It makes no sense at all.
The only credible issue that's been brought up about the second vote is the fact that players could vote with multiple accounts. But other posters on various threads have already shown that this could not have influenced the vote sufficiently to change the result. And at least one poll on a fansite has come up with results similar to Jagex's poll.
Bottom line: I think the second poll fairly accurately reflects what the great majority of the players want.
Now there is a vocal minority opposing the will of the majority.
That's their right.
But Jagex has made the decision to go with the majority, and I happen to think it's the right decision.

20-Jan-2011 13:38:53 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2011 13:41:00 by Mystic Monad

Sep

2003

Shorty XVI

Posts: 256 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I've been playing RS for over 7 years! Never have I been scammed by another player, nor have I been hacked, keylogged or anything else. I am not saying this can't happen to me, but I pay attention to all trades and never, ever give out personal information that could give a hacker any idea what my recovery answers are! With that said, I voted yes to the referendum! Mainly for the free trade... Every Xmas holiday, I would work my skills, make nice items or bulk items (e.g. 1k gold bars, etc) and would randomly drop in banks around RS. I would always choose banks with lots of lower level players who, either cannot make this themselves or afford to purchase these things. I do have a question and I hope a J Mod will answer me.
Q - With the return of free trade, if I were to drop, say 1000 gold bars noted, would other players be able to see this item? I have always been a giving person on RS, especially once I got to where I was able to make nice things that lower levels could not afford or make for themselves. I enjoy making others happy in game! When I was a low level, there were people who did that for me and I remember how happy it made me. So, I myself wish to return that favor to others!
With regard to Pk'ing..... Well, I can live with it or without it, honestly! I was a Pk'er for years, in some of the well known PK clans (e.g. DI, Mystic Legends) and had a lot of friends in RSD which was another very good Pk'ing clan! I prefer skilling now, but I think I could get back into Pk'ing occasionally! There should be some sort of code of ethic in the wild tho... What I mean by that is, what fun is it to just PK anyone walking thru the wild? I will never attack a clue seeker or someone wanting to do agility in the wild. I used to protect people at the agility place in wild, just because I thought it was wrong to PK someone trying to train a non-combat skill to get nothing in return except the pleasure of killing someone! I enjoy playing RS and will for many years!

20-Jan-2011 14:05:11

Sep

2003

Shorty XVI

Posts: 256 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You made some great points, Mystic Monad!! Thanks for posting that! I totally agree with you! The biggest problem is people don't think about things enough to give a justified answer! The question "WHY" tells all.. So, WHY would Jagex rig a vote to get the wild and free trade back? Simple answer - They Wouldn't!!

20-Jan-2011 14:10:09

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Wilderness and Free Trade Vote