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Rares:Inflation & Manipulation

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Hurt
Mar Member 2019

Hurt

Posts: 141 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Disrobed said :
True, it wouldn't allow for picking up other items while skilling or pvming, but there has to be a way to de incentivize certain players from manipulating other players for personal financial gains in the first place.

I think that's sort of the core of the issue; i haven't really bothered complaining about the rampant problem we are talking about before because i think the very behavior that is fostered in a "free market" is "profit profit profit above all else", so naturally you're going to have players lean towards malicious practices to benefit themselves because it isn't illegal, it's relatively commonplace, and it's almost encouraged by the market itself because the only rule of law is profit.

I really liked someone else's idea of adding wealth/trade taxes (no, i havent played any other MMO lol so I havent seen what that might look like), and I also like the idea of very strict tracking of individual trades on these high value items, and a higher degree of transparency, but there also aren't that many players (from what i can tell the percentage seems relatively low compared to other players) that can even afford to be, or are interested in, trading in high-value rares to begin with.

^Well said! To add to this, I think the reason it's so easy to manipulate high-end items is due to the fact that there's very little transparency, and street-trading carries huge risk but also huge reward, thus bigger margins on items such as partyhats. I like the idea of having a 1b token (perhaps with the ability to add regular gp to the trade as well) that can be added/traded with a separate Grand Exchange for max cash+ items--it would be much harder to fake trades, would increase transparency, and thin down margins on said items. Also, I think if forum mods are not required to watch over everything (especially when identifying price manipulation), they either should gain the ability to do so, or create a new category of ~Hurt

26-Sep-2020 02:35:28

Hurt
Mar Member 2019

Hurt

Posts: 141 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
forum mod specializing in watching the markets and being able to detect manipulation AND take appropriate action (banning from forums, bans/mutes being indistinguishable from in-game ones, etc.) Just my two cents though! ;) ~Hurt

26-Sep-2020 02:37:32

Mr Gatsby

Mr Gatsby

Posts: 4,735 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Disrobed said :
there also aren't that many players (from what i can tell the percentage seems relatively low compared to other players) that can even afford to be, or are interested in, trading in high-value rares to begin with.

At a given point in time there might not be many people to afford a high-value rare (which is expected) but that doesn't mean there aren't people who want them. There are many people who have had hats but don't anymore since they got cleaned at arena for example and there are many that want hats. There are also those who can afford hats but don't want them so that's fine too. That's why issues related to rares shouldn't be dismissed.

Sharp price increases aren't an issue as long as there is a correction eventually once demand dies down. As you pointed out though there might be a lack of transparency which gives opportunity for people to fuel hype (or crash hats) with fake trades and such. This is something though that the community needs to fix within, and perhaps some adjustments as I suggested previously to forum rules to allow for that to happen. W2's local swapper on the SW block, Trades broker, and PvP Events Host

Gatsby#8485

26-Sep-2020 02:42:03

Mr Gatsby

Mr Gatsby

Posts: 4,735 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hurt said :
forum mod specializing in watching the markets and being able to detect manipulation AND take appropriate action (banning from forums, bans/mutes being indistinguishable from in-game ones, etc.) Just my two cents though! ;)

Yeah, this might not really be manageable since FMODs are chosen volunteers essentially and there are so many threads too and items. But yes, more action from FMODs when there is obvious stuff which apparently they are already allowed to do but other than a poorly/proven photoshopped image or clearly inaccurate ranges not many more would be obvious. W2's local swapper on the SW block, Trades broker, and PvP Events Host

Gatsby#8485

26-Sep-2020 02:47:47

Mr Gatsby

Mr Gatsby

Posts: 4,735 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hurt said :

I like the idea of having a 1b token (perhaps with the ability to add regular gp to the trade as well) that can be added/traded with a separate Grand Exchange for max cash+ items--it would be much harder to fake trades

I don't think the other challenges that would come along with a token like that at this stage would be worth it. Don't forget if it's not that hard for people to fake photo evidence, it will be caught easier on forums perhaps but the damage would be severe potentially for someone who unwittingly ins their hat or inb it. It could go unnoticed on the discord bot though and potentially have impact on price.

The ge does not eliminate price manipulation because it does not eliminate the need for price checking. So, this new ge type of idea would have to be different than the current.
Maybe if they added like a player owned-store where you can basically place items in for the return of certain items (such as shards) and coins and people could just offer on there. When trades are completed players are able to view their own history like the ge but the latest trades are posted publicly in-game kind of like the wildy, da, and tt lists. W2's local swapper on the SW block, Trades broker, and PvP Events Host

Gatsby#8485

26-Sep-2020 02:55:08 - Last edited on 26-Sep-2020 03:00:27 by Mr Gatsby

ELITE STACK
Mar Member 2014

ELITE STACK

Posts: 8,082 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mr Gatsby said :
Hurt said :

I like the idea of having a 1b token (perhaps with the ability to add regular gp to the trade as well) that can be added/traded with a separate Grand Exchange for max cash+ items--it would be much harder to fake trades

I don't think the other challenges that would come along with a token like that at this stage would be worth it. Don't forget if it's not that hard for people to fake photo evidence, it will be caught easier on forums perhaps but the damage would be severe potentially for someone who unwittingly ins their hat or inb it. It could go unnoticed on the discord bot though and potentially have impact on price.

The ge does not eliminate price manipulation because it does not eliminate the need for price checking. So, this new ge type of idea would have to be different than the current.
Maybe if they added like a player owned-store where you can basically place items in for the return of certain items (such as shards) and coins and people could just offer on there. When trades are completed players are able to view their own history like the ge but the latest trades are posted publicly in-game kind of like the wildy, da, and tt lists.


It might not eliminate price checking to test inb ins but its a fact its way easier to fake a street trade then it is to fake a ge trade, as you can conflict a pc like you are selling an item for lower. Le Me for example inb a scythe 1950 maybe a few weeks back as he found something sketchy not only with price but alts posting 2b-2.1b inb trades in ge and a 2109 inb was conflicted. You could not conflict that 2109 if it was a street trade. I need my blue charms back.

26-Sep-2020 03:10:37

Mr Gatsby

Mr Gatsby

Posts: 4,735 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Some suggested on another thread the same idea but they were saying that the trades that the data from the trades that occur be available so that people could see, i'm not sure if Jagex would be open to do something like that. If there is too much transparency then that will lead to other issues related to hoarding and panic buying/selling.

Although, providing a way (without it being the default) to post authenticated trades would be nice which is kind of the idea with the player owned store. Although I don't think issues with price checking related to fake trades or pcs need/should be update based. There just needs to be more accountability ad self-policing by the community for the RS forums. We shouldn't approach the problem of fake trades as a problem specific to items above max since that's not the case at all. In fact, fake trades for above max items would be less effective if people did not rely on imitating the "the last trade". W2's local swapper on the SW block, Trades broker, and PvP Events Host

Gatsby#8485

26-Sep-2020 08:20:39

DofIamingo
Nov Member 2023

DofIamingo

Posts: 2,684 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I haven't been on forums for a while, so haven't read back much.

I really like the Idea of the trade tax. I just think it would be difficult to implement until we get a new currency, then you'd have to select a limit on when you would even get taxed.

I don't play much OSRS, how does the duel arena tax work exactly there? Does it only apply for currency stakes or item stakes too?

23-Oct-2020 05:10:57

Elon Musk
Oct Member 2011

Elon Musk

Posts: 458 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As a previous owner of Red and Green Phats.
Jagex should do something about the current price of Rares.
10bil per phat is understandable (to say the least), but 22bil-55bil for each? That is disgusting to even look at. New players can't ever get a Phat without taking the Microtransaction route.

Bring the prices of rares back to G.E Price Limit, or release them in secret into the G.E. This whole thought about rares being some GOD like item is over thought of now.

Doubt Jagex will do anything though, because they don't care.
The game will be dead before we know it, and the people hoarding rares to inflate the prices will be running the game amongst themselves.

21-Nov-2020 00:57:20

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