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Aunty Shark

Aunty Shark

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DarkNihility said :
i just finished watching the comp design q&a video showing off the potential looks for the new capes and I've got to say im pretty excited for the combat cape with the beast skull (option B). I hope it makes it as the combat cape.

also, please make the particle effects on all the cape recolorable. that would be amazing.

I might throw up

17-Apr-2019 03:44:14

Hupw
Apr Member 2017

Hupw

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@Ojacha

when I started in 2004 there was no completionist cape, skill capes, symbols of excessive wealth (party hats and the such were not that expensive) or really anything of the sort. As those things were released I worked towards them, under the expectation that they would continue to exist in their current form, as did everyone else. To change (for the worse) something that takes literally thousands of hours because someone cant pay a few mil for a boss leech to make up for their ineptitude at combat, is quite frankly an insult to everyone else.

On top of that slap in the face, as it's been stated numerous times ITT, this doesn't even address the problems they claim exist! you *still* have to kill bosses for the completionist cape. You *still* have to skill for your combat bonuses. Really, all they have done is make the completionist cape into a worthless cosmetic, because screw you guys, and add a crap load of worthless bank space wasters in place of the all - in - one swiss army knife cape. Like, seriously, who is this even supposed to appeal to?

To one of your other points, no. they shouldn't try to make this dumpster fire work. There is no problem with the completionist capes or MQC as they exist right now. Nobody is forced to get them, nobody. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to play 5000 games of castle wars. Nobody is forcing you to grind out champion scrolls. Nobody is forcing you to kill bosses you dont want to and nobody is forcing you to grind menaphos reputation.

Nobody is forcing anyone to get these virtual capes. If you don't like some part of acquiring them, the cape is not and never was for you. Adding an """""insane""""" completionist cape in place of the current trimmed completionist solves what exactly? Not a damn thing. It is literally the same thing that exists right now, with a different name. H̸̛͘͠Į̸̛͜͜

17-Apr-2019 11:40:33

Ojacha

Ojacha

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@Solivagus

Instead of addressing my points, you bring up those that most other elite PVMers have brought up countless times before you. Those are not the points I am arguing against.

You're right. No one is forcing me to go for this thing. Hence the reason I no longer am. Now you might not care that hundreds of players leave as they see no reason to go for comp any longer, but I can assure you that Jagex does.

All I'm saying is that the game isn't only made for you, or me. It's supposed to be for everyone.

Just because you have been a loyal player for over 10 years, doesn't give you any sort of privilege over those who didn't. And this is coming from someone who has played since 2005 and has most requirements under his belt.

I'll bring up this piece from a reddit TL;DW of the recent comp stream. Then I'll rest my case.

The audience for each part of the game is different. If we only listened to the elite PVM community for what they want, then we're ignoring the other 80-90% who are going to go for comp. If we listen to the ~540 people with 5.4b and do what they want, we're ignoring other people. On the other hand, if we listen to everyone who don't want Reaper, or group content or it's too hard for me' we're then ignoring everyone else who does want a challenge. So it's not a case of listening to one small community, it's a case of listening to everyone, weighing eveyone's opinions and trying to find a middle ground to please as many people as possible (but not necessarily the raw majority).

Edit: On a different note: I've seen the artwork from the livestream and think they look amazing! For the combat capes I feel they have a bit too much 'melee' going for them, whereas magic and ranged should also be implemented a bit more as well.

My favorites:
Skilling t1: A
Combat t1: B
Lore t3: B
Comp: C (love the Game of Thrones fur thing on top)
'If there is no one left to stand behind, then I will have to stand alone.'

17-Apr-2019 18:29:31 - Last edited on 17-Apr-2019 20:36:28 by Ojacha

Singularity
Aug Member 2023

Singularity

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Hupw said :
Nobody is forced to get them, nobody

That's true. However, for the case of PvMers, they feel forced to become a completionist if they want to gain access to best-in-slot combat stats for the cape slot. That is seen as a problem because those that go for the comp cape should be players that actually want to be a completionist and not because they feel forced to get it because nothing better than comp exists for combat and never ever will.

It was stopping BiS capes for combat (and other activities really) from being released and that is a problem. Boss hunters should be able to get BiS capes without having to be a completionist. That's not an unreasonable expectation.

Hupw said :
Nobody is forcing anyone to get these virtual capes

The standard comp cape isn't virtual as it has direct benefits over any other cape below it. Only trim is virtual as the differences between the regular and upgraded version are cosmetic only.

So, as stated previously, due to the benefits comp provides, it creates this feeling of being forced to pursue it regardless of whether or not you actually desire to be a completionist. If you want those best-in-slot stats for combat, you must become a completionist.

On a more unrelated note: it was inevitable that a rework would happen. Comp has been inconsistent for so long now and lacks a proper identity. It picked and chose what it required from people. For a cape about completionism, it should be including everything that is unlockable and not saying, "Oh we'll include this, but not that". Otherwise, it loses its meaning. The fact two versions of the cape exist already only further complicates things.

Enter this rework which is trying to establish what the cape actually represents. I feel like completionist isn't a suitable name because why do you need several capes to represent this? Just have one. .

17-Apr-2019 22:54:07

Aunty Shark

Aunty Shark

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That's true. However, for the case of PvMers, they feel forced to become a completionist if they want to gain access to best-in-slot combat stats for the cape slot. That is seen as a problem because those that go for the comp cape should be players that actually want to be a completionist and not because they feel forced to get it because nothing better than comp exists for combat and never ever will.

It was stopping BiS capes for combat (and other activities really) from being released and that is a problem. Boss hunters should be able to get BiS capes without having to be a completionist. That's not an unreasonable expectation.


Tough

17-Apr-2019 23:32:46

Hupw
Apr Member 2017

Hupw

Posts: 1,861 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Singularity

"That's true. However, for the case of PvMers, they feel forced to become a completionist if they want to gain access to best-in-slot combat stats for the cape slot."

The ability damage difference over a max cape is 1% (2058 - 2034). if someone feels compelled to complete the game for a 1% dps increase, that's on them.

if you want to be an elite pvmer you still are going to have to complete most of the quests, the entire achievement diary set, livid farm, grind dungeoneering for the combat rewards, do ports for superior scrimshaws and probably other things I'm not thinking about at the moment. The funny thing is, no matter how you look at it, pvmers have to do non-pvm content. Want borrowed power for vuln on lunars? back to livid farm you go!

the definition of virtual with respect to computing is "carried out, accessed, or stored by means of a computer, especially over a network"

they are virtual capes existing in a virtual world. if you don't want to complete or maintain your high maintenance capes, you don't deserve the 1% dps increase and if you cant do it, you never needed it in the first place.

I agree! they should have been adding more things to the requirements of comp. I have actually been asking for this for a while.

"The fact two versions of the cape exist already only further complicates things. "

a cursory glance at what the regular completionist cape and the trimmed version ask you to do tells you exactly what they are. the regular comp cape requires you to complete the majority of the game's content and the trimmed comp cape asks you to grind out rng based rewards and complete a bunch of minigames. this isnt confusing at all. but on that note, how is this any different from the proposed different levels of comp? they are basically just changing names here. H̸̛͘͠Į̸̛͜͜

18-Apr-2019 02:04:41

Singularity
Aug Member 2023

Singularity

Posts: 97,457 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hupw said :
if someone feels compelled to complete the game for a 1% dps increase, that's on them.

It's not so much that they want to complete the game for a minor boost in DPS, it's that no other cape can ever surpass it because comp is basically reserved for BiS. Have you ever seen a combat cape come out that's BiS for combat itself? No because comp is the be-all and end-all when it comes to the cape slot. That's just asking for the wrong people to chase the cape.

You should be going for the cape because you actually want to showcase what it represents, not because you feel forced because it's the only cape that will ever offer you best-in-slot combat stats. To get best-in-slot stats in combat for the cape slot, you shouldn't have to become a completionist. There should be capes that offer you those stats that are tied to combat itself. That's not unreasonable to expect.

Hupw said :
pvmers have to do non-pvm content. Want borrowed power for vuln on lunars? back to livid farm you go!

Yeah, but they don't need to become a completionist, do they? They don't need to engage with every piece of content to unlock that one thing. They usually only have to interact with one piece of content which doesn't take near as much time as comp cape does.

Hupw said :
this isnt confusing at all.

It is because it's supposed to represent completionism, yet it doesn't. It picks and chooses what it wants to make you do. There's inconsistency and the fact you agree it needs more requirements suggests that you feel it's not representing what it should. That's why a rework is taking place: to address its evident problems and try to come up with solutions.

It's still early days yet with the rework, nothing is set in stone. It's all subject to change. It had to happen though one way or another. .

18-Apr-2019 05:34:04 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2019 05:37:03 by Singularity

Hupw
Apr Member 2017

Hupw

Posts: 1,861 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Singularity

"It's not so much that they want to complete the game for a minor boost in DPS, it's that no other cape can ever surpass it because comp is basically reserved for BiS"

It's the game's completion bonus, you get it for completing the game, it was designed to be the best. that being said, it's literally a 1% boost to dps over the max cape. you get a bigger dps boost from upgrading from p3eq2 to p4eq2. I would be fine with adding some stupid combat cape that was inferior in every way to the comp cape to placate whiny pvmers. but i fail to see how finishing one aspect of the game should offer a superior reward to finishing 5 or 6.

"They usually only have to interact with one piece of content which doesn't take near as much time as comp cape does."

but singularity, according the design document we are discussing, jagex says you shouldn't have to play any of that content.

"you shouldn’t feel compelled to play content you don’t want to anymore."

so why should a combat enthusiast be forced to do non combat things for their combat boosts and spells? we are nuking the completionist cape for that very reason, but it's okay to force someone who only exists to kill bosses to grind a minigame for 24 hours straight for borrowed power?

"There's inconsistency and the fact you agree it needs more requirements suggests that you feel it's not representing what it should"

my area of agreement on this ends right there, add more things, not everything. agreeing to that one thing doesn't mean i buy into the premise that everything needs to or should be changed. H̸̛͘͠Į̸̛͜͜

18-Apr-2019 06:35:19

Singularity
Aug Member 2023

Singularity

Posts: 97,457 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hupw said :
but i fail to see how finishing one aspect of the game should offer a superior reward to finishing 5 or 6

The problem with comp is that the bulk of your time is spent doing non-combat things. A very small part of it is combat and while it's funnily enough the biggest barrier people face, it still doesn't change the fact that one has grind for a very long time just to get those stats when their only desire is to have something that's BiS for combat.

People want a BiS cape for combat that actually requires challenging combat-related stuff. You want those combat stats? Well, it makes perfect sense to have to do combat to get them. You shouldn't need to become a completionist just to gain access to an item like that when you don't need to become a completionist for any other item slot.

Hell, you could make a combat cape that has challenging combat requirements like killing Telos at 1k enrage and have it equal comp cape's combat stats. 1k Telos is harder for most people than comping so while that might sound small, the challenge of that one requirement makes it big - enough to warrant it sharing comp's combat stats.

Hupw said :
but it's okay to force someone who only exists to kill bosses to grind a minigame for 24 hours straight for borrowed power?

Again, the time investment is so much smaller. Grinding a mini-game for 24 hours is nothing compared to the grind that is comp.

Imagine if comp took say 30 hours to get, you think most people would be complaining? Likely no. It's not necessarily doing non-combat stuff to get something that benefits you in combat that's the problem, it's more to do with the massive time investment (the majority of which is non-combat) of comp to get that boost. It seems unreasonable when you consider the actual bonuses it offers (it's small like you mentioned). .

18-Apr-2019 07:10:37 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2019 07:21:02 by Singularity

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