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Can we talk about P.A.G?

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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aslon Dak said :


If Jagex truly wants to know how they can improve the game for the majority of players, they should step outside the echo chamber and read what actual players are saying about what they like and do not like.


They are already doing it. There is a Suggestion forum in these RSOF. Periodically they run Q&A threads too. There are always Jmods on the social platforms. We can always hear their answers from Weekly Livestreams too.

I don't think anything will change. It is not like they will stop reading the questions and comments from the RSOF and social platforms after they added the PAG.

09-Apr-2020 20:45:14

Aslon Dak

Aslon Dak

Posts: 10,543 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
Aslon Dak said :


If Jagex truly wants to know how they can improve the game for the majority of players, they should step outside the echo chamber and read what actual players are saying about what they like and do not like.


They are already doing it. There is a Suggestion forum in these RSOF. Periodically they run Q&A threads too. There are always Jmods on the social platforms. We can always hear their answers from Weekly Livestreams too.


Are they though?

It's one thing to provide multiple platforms for players to use to provide feedback. It's another to read that feedback and take it into consideration. For example, I do not recall anyone on the RSOF calling for a MORE grindy Yak Track next time. I remember quite the opposite. Call that "Power to the Players"? I don't.

Maybe it's a different story over on the third-party platforms. I don't know about that since I never use those, aside from Facebook. Mostly I use the RSOF. I'm not sure some of the mods even know these forums still exist.

{quote]I don't think anything will change. It is not like they will stop reading the questions and comments from the RSOF and social platforms after they added the PAG.[/quote]

Sadly, I agree. I don't thing anything is likely to change because of these PAGs. Sure, it all sounds swell. So did RuneLabs.
Aslon Dak: Still 'Scaping after 19 years!
You can buy XP. You can't buy experience.
"...From The 'Scape" is very nearly here.

10-Apr-2020 07:48:44

GhostlyBard

GhostlyBard

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Sorry Aslon, but I have to agree with Dilbert here, at least to some extent. Having seen firsthand player suggestions from these forums getting in game, they certainly do listen.
It’s a far cry from a perfect system of communication, and they can’t always act on the will of the players but it does occasionally happen.
Check out Thieves guild layout redesign. Happy ‘scaping

10-Apr-2020 12:06:49

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aslon Dak said :
Dilbert2001 said :
Aslon Dak said :


If Jagex truly wants to know how they can improve the game for the majority of players, they should step outside the echo chamber and read what actual players are saying about what they like and do not like.


They are already doing it. There is a Suggestion forum in these RSOF. Periodically they run Q&A threads too. There are always Jmods on the social platforms. We can always hear their answers from Weekly Livestreams too.


Are they though?

It's one thing to provide multiple platforms for players to use to provide feedback. It's another to read that feedback and take it into consideration. For example, I do not recall anyone on the RSOF calling for a MORE grindy Yak Track next time. I remember quite the opposite. Call that "Power to the Players"? I don't.

Maybe it's a different story over on the third-party platforms. I don't know about that since I never use those, aside from Facebook. Mostly I use the RSOF. I'm not sure some of the mods even know these forums still exist.

{quote]I don't think anything will change. It is not like they will stop reading the questions and comments from the RSOF and social platforms after they added the PAG.


Sadly, I agree. I don't thing anything is likely to change because of these PAGs. Sure, it all sounds swell. So did RuneLabs.[/quote]

Jagex have millions of active players. They can't listen to all their bazillions of different suggestions from so manu players obviously. I certainly did see players mentioning they like Yak Track the way it is anyway.

The key point is PAG is not a replacement of the current methods Jagex use to get suggestions from players. It works in tandem with all the current flow of Q&A.

10-Apr-2020 19:07:16

Aslon Dak

Aslon Dak

Posts: 10,543 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
GhostlyBard said :
Sorry Aslon, but I have to agree with Dilbert here, at least to some extent. Having seen firsthand player suggestions from these forums getting in game, they certainly do listen.
It’s a far cry from a perfect system of communication, and they can’t always act on the will of the players but it does occasionally happen.


I don't think you disagree with me quite as strongly as you may believe you do...not if you can admit sometimes Jagex makes unpopular decisions. Stone spirits anyone?

Asking the question "Do they listen?" when Jagex removes or changes content a lot of players enjoy, or forces unpopular content that Jagex wants in the game but many players do not, is not to say Jagex never acts upon player suggestions to improve the game. Of course they do. If they always did what the majority of players didn't like, and never paid attention to feedback, no matter how overwhelming, RS would not be as popular as it is.

However, everything is not perfect. There are bugs and other issues players have been asking to have fixed for years, which have still not been addressed, except maybe with a dismissive "We have no plans to address this at this time." comment if not completely ignored. Some posters have legitimate complaints.

I can appreciate optimism, but I maintain it's too soon to declare PAGs to be a success when they've not actually done anything just yet. They could be great. They could be useless.
Aslon Dak: Still 'Scaping after 19 years!
You can buy XP. You can't buy experience.
"...From The 'Scape" is very nearly here.

13-Apr-2020 09:07:38

Aslon Dak

Aslon Dak

Posts: 10,543 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :

Jagex have millions of active players. They can't listen to all their bazillions of different suggestions from so manu players obviously. I certainly did see players mentioning they like Yak Track the way it is anyway.

The key point is PAG is not a replacement of the current methods Jagex use to get suggestions from players. It works in tandem with all the current flow of Q&A.


How about one suggestion from a large section of their player base? Can they listen to that? Yes. Do they? Sometimes. Only sometimes.

Show me someone who liked the first Yak Track, but wanted this second one to be even more of a grindfest and I'll show you a sadist.

That may be the plan. Let's see how it works - if it works - before we declare victory.
Aslon Dak: Still 'Scaping after 19 years!
You can buy XP. You can't buy experience.
"...From The 'Scape" is very nearly here.

13-Apr-2020 09:25:54

GhostlyBard

GhostlyBard

Posts: 4,332 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aslon Dak said :
I don't think you disagree with me quite as strongly as you may believe you do...not if you can admit sometimes Jagex makes unpopular decisions. Stone spirits anyone?.

To be fair I don’t really disagree with what your saying just the wording makes it seem like Jagex never listen. When we both know they listen occasionally. :)

As for Yaktrack there’ll be some suit somewhere high up at Jagex who looks at player ‘engagement’. We might not like the stupid Grindy thing but a lot of players actually took part in it. (Not me)

The simpsons did a pretty decent parody episode covering the nature of grind and superfluous rewards that incentivise people to do things they normally wouldn’t.
Check out Thieves guild layout redesign. Happy ‘scaping

13-Apr-2020 11:05:30

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aslon Dak said :
Dilbert2001 said :

Jagex have millions of active players. They can't listen to all their bazillions of different suggestions from so manu players obviously. I certainly did see players mentioning they like Yak Track the way it is anyway.

The key point is PAG is not a replacement of the current methods Jagex use to get suggestions from players. It works in tandem with all the current flow of Q&A.


How about one suggestion from a large section of their player base? Can they listen to that? Yes. Do they? Sometimes. Only sometimes.

Show me someone who liked the first Yak Track, but wanted this second one to be even more of a grindfest and I'll show you a sadist.

That may be the plan. Let's see how it works - if it works - before we declare victory.


How "large" is a "large" section of their player base? 2 or 3 RSOF users? :D

They ran big annual surveys and they showed us the results and discussed them in Runefest. We knew it already. For instance, we can see a large section of Jagex's player base want more quests, so Jagex said they are going to do more quests this year. A large section of the player base like Zaros themed quests, so we see Azzanadra and the Zarosian City quest in the making. We can all see they are not just peeling their eyes on the suggestions of the larger section of the player base, they are open to discuss them with the even larger section of the player base in their main Annual Event they called Runefest.

14-Apr-2020 21:22:00

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