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Rs3 and Polls....

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H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There were two major things that happened today that are related to polls in Rs3.

> The Retro Saradomin God Armor was released, which was polled at least once in-game when discussing which items, from a fairly extensive list, should be made in to retro-overrides. Along with it came a "remastered" version of the armor that keeps the legacy aesthetic whilst fitting much more with the rest of the game world, keeping it in line with the other "recent" retro override bundles we've received. I believe the last part of that would-be bundle left is the Gilded Armor set from Treasure Trails.

> Trimmed Completionist cape details particularly around PvM and Lore mastery are being polled in game right now, reviving the game's poll system from a decently long dormancy and providing Rs3 players a rare chance to steer some direction on content in game.

If the former point's wild ride is anything to go off of, I don't think many people should be exactly "excited" about Rs3 receiving polls, because there are many instances where Jagex, behind-the-scenes, didn't exactly have clear objectives at best, or they themselves had ulterior motives at worst.

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Let's talk chronologically.

1. Last year almost to the week, Jagex had polled from an extensive list of old gear which items should receive retro overrides. We now have 4 of those items/sets out of the 5 in game. At this time, we didn't know -anything- about "remastered" versions of these items - but they are welcome because we also saw some commotion in the community about how retro graphics (people wearing retro base clothing, or older cosmetic items and overrides) were a part of the game's lack of graphical fidelity. Was the idea to "remaster" any of these items polled initially? Absolutely not. This led to players only expecting the retro version of the items.

What -was- included in original polls results? A "bundle" in which all of those retro cosmetics could be purchased on one time... together...

(cont.)
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

18-Apr-2023 01:22:15

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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The next poll focused on the Abyssal Whip and the Dragon Scimitar, two of three weapon overrides that made it into the top 5. These two items have had various graphical versions throughout the game's history, and the art team wanted the community to give them a sense of which of those versions were the most popular.

Then, the newposts would themselves would see relative silence as Jagex would opt to look for Reddit and possibly other social networking pockets of the community to further refine the Dragon Scimitar. It's -here- where the "remastering" concept is introduced. Debate ensued between members of the legacy-appreciating crowd and members of the game that wanted the game to be less of an eyesore and more consistent. There wasn't necessarily a "poll" to my knowledge (there may have been out of the game.), but Jagex decided to eventually release the items in their own individual "packs" onto the marketplace. The Dragon Scimitar would release with both mainland and off-hand variants of the 2005 version of the weapon, as well as a pair of "Dragonwing Scimitars", which were decorative takes on the weapon that were made using the game's current assets.

The Dragon Claws and Abyssal Whip would also receive both a retro version, and a remastered version, with the Whip receiving a trio of styles ahead of time (Again, to people on socials, not in game) for the masses to choose from.

Today, Saradomin's God Armor was released, and, while I've bought every set so far and think the armor's beautiful, particularly ornate take on the classic metal armors could be made Bronze-Gilded and could make Jagex a decent bit of coin, we start to see another area where polling and information wasn't super well respected.

(cont.)
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

18-Apr-2023 01:41:26

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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> The prices of these packs are starting to add up significantly, with the Saradomin armor needing at least 15 dollars just as a solo purchase. It's getting much harder to see how this "community bundle" we were originally promised is viable.

> People may have voted for the God Rune sets because they might have thought they were receiving a collective of at least the original three sets (Saradomin, Guthix, and Zamorak). There may have been a poll somewhere that indicated Saradomin's was the most popular, but I don't now that it was made clear that would be the only set that got worked on. Other people voted for items that didn't make it into the top 5 at all. This information being withheld could have altered the results had it not been.

> It isn't like Rs3 is doing a bang up job of respecting poll results outside of MTX either. The most infamous poll ever run about RuneScape is the return of the Wilderness and Free Trade poll. That was so big an event that Jagex made merchandise about it. The Wilderness we have now? Not that one that was polled back then.

Friends. Warnings are always appropriate when talking about this. If the polls aren't being run by people who can reliably communicate all the details or those details are liable to be changed away from the results, there shouldn't be polls in the first place.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

18-Apr-2023 01:47:49

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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Relatively tame poll regarding content that will likely never concern me, the Trimmed Comp poll.

> I do think the "trimmed" version of the cape should involve having interacted with all supplementary lore, dedication to completing long-term content such as Treasure Trails, and indicate a modicum of PvM skill.

> I voted "Yes" to renaming the capes for the following reasons (not beholden to it).

1. I like playing with nomenclature where it may provide valuable context.

2. I think you can better explain one cape shows "sufficient interaction with all content" versus "mastered all content." Either the completionist cape can seem like it gives its wearers too much credit for their accomplishments, or the trimmed cape doesn't give its wearers enough laud.

An example I can think of is something like this:

Untrimmed Completionist Cape > the Virtuoso's Cape.

Trimmed -becomes- the Completionist Cape.

A "virtuoso" is someone who is accomplished with trained ability. A "completionist" is someone who "completes" the content to the fullest extent.

This leaves terminology people understand for the best accomplishment cape, while still giving laud to those who show the promise to contend for the best accomplishment cape by meeting the easier prerequisites.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

18-Apr-2023 05:15:03

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
In general - ideally - the comp cape and its trimmed alternation would focus on what they initially were intended for - things that can be completed in some kind of fashion and would then either permanently be unavailable or only in some altered state (i.e. doing some repeatable content would have drops you permanently unlock (like lore books - so what you need to do is to obtain that book rather than kill the boss (even when said boss is the sole source for it)) or change some dialogues out there (like something with Mr. Mordaut after killing the KBD and QBD, which makes fitting bossing involvement on that level). What's obviously important is a distinct rule set to determine what kinds of completables would belong on which cape - preferably things, that increase your capabilities on regular and cosmetics on trimmed.

But since this cape will never be this again (both due to missing things and uncompletable achievements), it really should be renamed. They should give those things new names and stick to the achievement approach from the failed 2019 comp rework. Not some inconsistent mix and match as we currently have. I like the Virtuoso idea, but comp then will have the same problems as comp now - but this can't be solved with just 2 tiers, it needs at least 3, most likely even 4 if we were to start adding really insane things - like collection logs. OS even has 6 for its combat diary for instance. Of course even better would be those five distinct progression paths, which eventually lead to comp, since this would allow players to go on further in so many distinct ways after maxing... Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Apr-2023 07:12:01 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2023 08:10:18 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
But yeah when it comes to polls it's basically just for Jagex for how the mood currently is. They've added a disclaimer, that they basically can ignore the results of the poll.

Of course their approach following those legacy item bundles is a bit grubby - I do think every remastered item so far is incredible gorgeous and should be the default appearance of the real counterparts - alone for the sake of a more consistent look and feel compared to new and other updated things. But everything following that poll was misinformation at best and outright lies at worst. You already said it.

I mean I personally would prefer a cosmetic based business model, if they were to get rid of their loot boxes and FOMO exploitations - but Jagex being Jagex it's just another layer of MTX. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Apr-2023 07:46:30 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2023 07:47:36 by Rikornak

Miles Prower
Nov Member 2006

Miles Prower

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I really don't see the purpose in polling anything to do with the "completionist" cape. Put simply, it is called the "completionist" cape for a reason - one must complete all content in order to obtain it, and in my view, there should only be one version without tiers. The existence of this cape has caused no end of debate over what should and should not be included as a requirement and in which tier since its introduction, which makes absolutely no sense.

Only one question is relevant: Should the "completionist" cape be renamed? If the answer is yes, then this should allow the current system of flexibility with requirements. If the answer is no, the cape should be rigorously maintained through consistent requirements, no matter how challenging or tedious the content. For the record, I have always been in favour of renaming the cape simply because its existence proves that the idea of true completionism in an MMORPG is not feasible.

It is early days, but as things stand the option to rename is currently a fairly even split (52% against, 48% in favour). If the name of the cape is to stay the same, fine, but there should be no capitulation when it comes to requirements. I would also argue the tiers should be removed and have all requirements under one roof for what is meant to be the most ambitious cape of the game, but this is very unlikely to happen. Low on bank space? Click here .

18-Apr-2023 07:56:06 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2023 07:56:56 by Miles Prower

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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I play both Old School -and- RS3, and while I think RS3 is usually the game that goes above and beyond when it comes to convenience, Old School's got an entire interface built into the quest tab that focuses on collection log slots for like....everything in the game. We have physical items we put in our inventory for some logs, and interfaces for others, and oh man. Combat Achievements are also very well designated through multiple tiers as mentioned. Man, I'd love to see some major cohesive "progression" tab like that in game. It would save us bank space and would be so much easier to browse through.

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Regarding the remastered gear and how it should have been subbing out the models already in game for the actual items they are representing.....yes. There's also other silly things too. Two of the five items people voted into the top 5 of this poll are sets of rune armor...which already has retro armor available in Solomon's shop as an override both for the entire alloy set as well as the trimmed versions not aligned to any gods. Then you have stuff where it's not super relevant but it is noticeable, such as the fact that Sara's new fancy armor doesn't come with a Kiteshield that definitely existed in the set, but does come with boots and gauntlets that did not.

(I realize that newer armor needs to go head to toe for the sake of aesthetic, and that people only see a shield override for a split second in the endgame because shields are highly inefficient combat items.)

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With regards to there only being "one cape" for the name as is to make sense, I completely agree, which is a part of why I voted yes. Ironically, if Jagex wants multiple tiers of completion like they have now, then I would love for them to step in and tip the scale in the favor of the Yes group on this question alone.

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I like that Jagex is just saying that the results are subject to veto, but it does beg the question... why vote if there's a good chance it's not meaningful?
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

18-Apr-2023 08:23:38

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't know why one should be "excited" or not about the RS3 polls. When they ditched Runelabs, all polls, unless otherwise specified, are opinion polls and not guaranteed. Essentially, polls are opinion surveys.

I am 100% glad everybody is given a nice and easy mean to give our opinions in the game in RS3. They are doing it a lot more often now. Remember not long ago, they ran a survey on FSW, followed by a Ninja Dojo style poll on QoL updates?

More surveys and opinions gathering, less arguments and mud-slinging among players. We are going in the right direction with RS3.

18-Apr-2023 16:51:19

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