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Leader Rob

Leader Rob

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Ryanc360 said :
Robertjones,

The Tribes of Rellekka has claimed lands belonging to the Empire of Falador. With that said consider ToR to be in a state of war with EOF until our lands and that of Zirak Kingdom's, and including all other lands belonging to other clans on world 83, are removed from your list and the border between our claims is specifically outlined on your thread.

Tribes of Rellekka officially decline your war, as of this time Tribes of Rellekka has no business and wants no business to do with the Empire of Falador.

Regards

Robertjones6
Emperor of the Tribes of Rellekka Creator of the Clan Leader Discord & Clan Discord
Lead Developer of The Clan Network
Clan Leader of Bound Links

28-Apr-2016 06:05:59

Ryanc360
Jun Member 2005

Ryanc360

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Robertjones,

You appear to be new to the community and lack an understanding of how we operate. Historically in world 83 claiming land that is already held by another clan is considered business. We assume this is an honest mistake, and so by stating you desire no dealings with the Empire you will be relinquishing your claims to our land in the fremmy region.

On another note our community does not regard declarations of war as something to be accepted or denied. They are absolute, regardless of if you are ready to fight or not.

I hope you get this cleared up soon. Hopefully you can negotiate for some of the more freely available lands located elsewhere in the world.

28-Apr-2016 09:17:01

Zaire
Mar Member 2020

Zaire

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Mistakes W83 has made:

- Giving Rj attention
- Deciding to war him for his claims
- Saying he's new to the community

By giving RJ attention on this matter, you give him what he wants: authority and/or recognition. He's like a typical school bully; as long as he gets the response he desires, he's gonna keep doing what he's doing. Deciding to war him is exactly what he expected. You've not only validated his place in the W83 community, but you've also validated that he has claims when he doesn't really have them.

Saying he's new to the community only furthers his position. He's not part of the community.. He has not a single official claim. He needs to do it legally (e.g. getting a land gift from another clan or waiting for a new land to open up and claiming it) before you should recognize him as a part o the community.

W83 has done this entirely wrong from the very start, because you all initially gave him attention, which is what he both expected and wanted.

My advice: please ignore this guy. If EVERYONE ignores him, does he really have any authority? Just let him claim all the lands he wants lol. If a community has that one crazy guy that everyone agrees to ignore, does his actions really have weight at all? The answer is no*

**;dr Please completely ignore this guy. You are making all the wrong decisions if you want W83 to not be bothered by him.
Zaire

28-Apr-2016 12:21:42

Zaire
Mar Member 2020

Zaire

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And before you argue it, whether or not you admit or realize it, you actually have given him authority/recognition by warring him. Ask yourself this question: didn't he expect you to declare war on him, and that you'd be insistent on not backing down?

Then why would he go through with what he did anyway unless it's what he wanted. You walked right into what he wanted. Just ignore him now and you can save yourself the trouble; I guarantee it

He'll probably say something snarky in response to this, trying to bait you to ignore me. (Something like, listen to Zaire, leave me alone.) Maybe not. I dunno
Zaire

28-Apr-2016 12:24:46 - Last edited on 28-Apr-2016 12:25:23 by Zaire

Ryanc360
Jun Member 2005

Ryanc360

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Zaire,

You act like I don't know what I am doing, like I haven't dealt with people like this before. It is quite the opposite actually. I have dealt with people like this since the early days of this community. I can tell you that world 83 has made many mistakes, but by far I think our greatest sin is adopting the ideology that "if we ignore it then it will go away". It never works. It never has, it never will. They always. Come. Back. Whether it's this guy, or the next guy or the guy after him we will always have this issue.

So if ignoring them doesn't work then what do we do? To find the answer we have to look back at what many deem as the "Golden Age of POCs" and how we as a community have evolved since then. As far as I am aware there are only two people remaining who have been around for almost every step the journey, and you are talking to one of them now. So how does today differ from back then? Well putting aside decrease in population the primary difference is people's attitude. Back then people weren't afraid to "poke the bear", and the bear didn't think twice about poking back.

I'll try to elaborate a bit further. All the stories you hear about wars and rebellions, alliances and treason, they weren't stories and they weren't roleplay. It was all very much real to those of us who took part in them. There was no third party organizing land claims, wars were not something that were accepted or denied and most importantly land was not just a list on your recruitment thread. Lands were owned which made us POCs, used which gave us something to do, and defended which gave us a sense of belonging somewhere. If I don't defend my lands, even against someone as trivial as Robertjones, how can I say I own them? If I don't own them how can I use them?

28-Apr-2016 19:30:55 - Last edited on 28-Apr-2016 19:33:02 by Ryanc360

Ryanc360
Jun Member 2005

Ryanc360

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Even if I were to ignore him and his clan die out leaving me to once again be the sole owner of those lands the damage is already done. My clan will no longer see land defense as a necessity and will be less willing to fight for it in the future. In contrast if I DO defend it, even if my opponents don't face me in open battle, then my claim to the land will be that much stronger and my clan will have a sense of belonging and ownership. It helps build a feeling of nationalism and pride by bringing the clan together and giving them something to focus on as a whole.

So you can sit there and you can ignore his claims while waiting for his clan to die, and die it will I'm sure of that. However I see no reason why I should let my clan's sense of national pride diminish while waiting for him to kick the bucket. Even if he won't fight me I can at least say that I stood in defense of my land which not only strengthens my claim on the land but also the connection my members have with it as it's citizens.

The bear was poked. The bear awakens. The Bear. Pokes. Back.

28-Apr-2016 19:31:07 - Last edited on 28-Apr-2016 19:38:54 by Ryanc360

Zaire
Mar Member 2020

Zaire

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I understand your sentiment, I truly do. And I agree with you that you need to defend your lands. However, I still disagree with your decision, mostly because you've brought your own/your clan's hubris into the equation.

No one is going to leave EOF if you ignore the guy. He's literally just stirring up trouble; anybody can see that and will understand. You are right that back in the day, this stuff was real. But today is a different story, and the current state of W83 can attest to that; the landscape of today's W83 is a lot different than (what I have heard about) the past.

I'm not saying that you plan can't/won't work. But I still think ignoring him is the best way to go. Obviously I'm in no position to tell you what to do; you have more experience by far (Emperor-schmemperor). Just wanted to give my 2 cents

Either way, EOF has my full support in whatever you all decide to do. RJ is and always has been a thorn in W83 when he's been involved
Zaire

28-Apr-2016 20:01:33

Ryanc360
Jun Member 2005

Ryanc360

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I feel a misunderstanding has arisen.

I do not fear my citizens leaving if we ignore him. Their loyalty is not in question, nor has it ever been. Some like Tyler and Chad might leave from time to time, but they always keep in touch, they always keep me informed (as best they can) and they always return. No that is not what I was referring to. I also did not mean to say that our pride had been wounded and we had to fight to repair it.
What I meant to mean was that right now I don't think very many people in world 83 have a sense of clan pride. They acknowledge that they are a member of a clan but are not proud of their clan's history or accomplishments.

Example and an opportunity to prove me wrong;
- K0V has their history thread where they list all the major events and influential people throughout their history. Now out of all the people in K0V how many actually take the time to read it over and learn their clan's history? How many just join the clan and go to events or try to work for a rank?
- If someone were to declare war on them for a piece of land, say an outlying colony like Karamja, how many would want to fight? And of those how many would want to fight for the clan and how many would want to fight because they like to fight?
- If they lost Karamja how many would be upset that the fight was lost, vs how many would be upset that K0V lost some land? How many wouldn't care because they got to fight?

It's not about mending wounded pride, it's more about building or rebuilding a singular sense of clan pride. Turning clan members into clan patriots. That is my goal, and it is a goal I have been working towards for a while now. This new development simply provides me an opportunity without having to instigate a fight myself.

28-Apr-2016 20:55:21

Zaire
Mar Member 2020

Zaire

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All right you convinced me. If your goal is to re-ignite clan pride, especially across W83, maybe this is a good route. I still think there could be better ways (I'm at a loss on that one, it is indeed a tough question) to go about it however. And I don't think this is the best way to handle RJ.

But I can't argue with trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. It's a good plan
Zaire

28-Apr-2016 22:01:07

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