RuneScape Forum Archive | Stop admins changing collors

Mod Maz

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user

Dracae said :

My rl wife, whom i met on RS a long, long time ago and coincidentally goes by Cee on the game ( looks at the post above me ) always expresses it this way: " I doubt very much that a lot of RS developers actually play, skill, level or are part of the community enough to understand the realities of the game.

Almost every single Mod in the RuneScape department plays either form of the game, some of them both. We also have an internal high scores list... with a fair few maxed players. I'm not one of the maxed ones, but I prefer skilling and talking to people to grind.

To address the original point - Admin+ Ranks come with privilege and responsibility. They are not there to be granted lightly.

The specific permissions mentioned are something I am looking into in my own time, and were, as others have pointed out, part of a larger plan to modify the way all permission administration was done. Mod Maz
Queen of the Squirrels
RS Training & Developer Lead

12-Feb-2016 07:47:47

Choobokka

Posts: 534 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mod Maz:

1) "Working on permissions" - music to my ears some great ideas that do not deserve to die. Teach those squirrels to code and we should be in great shape.
2) There is clearly a perception in the community that Jmods and developers do not play. When a new skill that will "level at the same speed as other skills" is released and people are approaching 120 overnight, it fuels this belief. A day 2 50% nerf of the primary actual method of training and an 1800% buff of the intended method of training also suggests that people don't really get the game. As new ideas come out and are tested by tens of thousands of players trying to find the best methods on release, it inevitably fuels that belief. The truth of the matter, as eloquently expressed in your post above, should be made known to the community from time to time.

On topic: The changing colors / avatars etc is an issue we would love to see resolved, but know its only feasible with tech updates or as part of a much larger project.

12-Feb-2016 15:57:04

Oct

2005

Dracae

Posts: 3,827 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mod Maz :

I am glad to hear most mods play the game, apparently even a lot.

I do not expect an answer, but if you read this and have the time.. I am curious if you and your coworkers actually understand where these thoughts come from. Because I think it is logical that people wonder if J mods in game development actually understand the game when things stay broken for years, like the noticeboard, when clans are forced to go nuclear and kick misbehaving ranked members wile they can temp ban guests.. in a way treating these guests better..

I don't know what ' the community' wants, but many people I know would love to see less time spent on making new things and more on fixing obvious problems. Of course we would love to see both even more..

Anyway.. the abandoning / postponement of this larger plan you mentioned to fix clan-permissions is one thing that I can tell you did not help the trust some clanleaders have in Jagex.. sorry.. but its something that deserves telling.

I myself have both here and when I wrote articles for a fansite often defended Jagex wile at other times I was critical, trying to be fair. It seems today was a day to be critical...

Let me end with an other quote from a friend and long time RS player: I would not want to work for JAgex, you can never make everyone happy.. and have millions of people to deal with who think they can do it better.. "

I do understand that and don't think I can do the job better.. despite the honest criticism.

Thanks for the reaction and for looking in to this, in your own time of course!
Really appreciated.

12-Feb-2016 21:26:04 - Last edited on 12-Feb-2016 21:45:27 by Dracae

Tyki Mikk

Posts: 906 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dracae said :

I don't know what ' the community' wants, but many people I know would love to see less time spent on making new things and more on fixing obvious problems.

I think this is the real indication of the disconnect between the community and Jmods. I see nothing but love and borderline worship for people like the Ninjas and, recently, Mod Shauny who fix problems and address concerns. When smithing/mining rework was voted as the number one wanted update (over even a new continent I believe), the employees said they were surprised when really none of the players were because we've asked for years. This is further confirmed by the community voting for less updates in order to make sure the ones we get are solid and well-polished.

I know it has to be an ongoing internal dialogue within Jagex, but many people do want a focus on reviving and fixing of existing content (outside of updates we've already seen teased, we're too much of addicts to let go of teased content). The permission system is a small example, since I agree it's more of a QOL for clan leaders than a truly necessary update, but that's what I've seen at least. New updates make sexier front page updates than patches, fixes, and reworks, but I'm curious if recent polls are swaying current employees away from that model.

Tyki Mikk

:

Completionist

,

Master Quest Caper

, and clan leader of

Phoenix Tale

.

The Phoenix is reborn, and the Tale continues...

15-Feb-2016 15:19:01

Oct

2005

Dracae

Posts: 3,827 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@ Tyki Mikk : you make a lot of sense, except for one thing: Several permission updates for clans are much more then quality of life for us clan leaders.

I have never made a big deal about quirky controls, like that you cannot uncheck some of the permissions, but have to click an already checked box the higher rank.. That's od, but not a real problem.
More ways to basically check up on our clanmates, whether they did their chores.. are active, or whatever would be nice.. but again no biggy really.

HOWEVER some things are more then just making our lives easy, I am talking about keepign our clanmates ' safe' . I would very much like my admins not to be able to kick members, but instead have the option of a temp mute.. because look at how much is potentially lost and how much drama is caused when a clanmate is kicked. We can temp kick guests.. but not our own valued members if lets say their lil brother gets a hold of the account.. or it gets hacked by some ' clown' who wants to be ' funny' in the clanchat. Not to mention if it happens to an admin account.. and random members get kicked or demoted.

That is not a small thing.

Jagex has already helped by limiting the amount of people an admin can kick in a day, basically instead of potentially 100 victims we now have a few. My clan does not care about the rat-race of xp, but for clans who do the loss of xp alone would be a major hit.

Before Jagex limited this problem several clans got totally ruined, as in every member kicked. I did some research in to this back then coss I wrote articles and one Soul Wars clan had a member of a rival clan infiltrate it, for months kiss ass and whatever else needed to get the keys to the castle and when this was the case the whole clan was gone.

Of course we, including me , bare a lot of responsibility when we promote people to admin, but that does not relieve Jagex of its responsibility to the players in clans.

15-Feb-2016 22:47:26

Oct

2010

Macka

Posts: 4,318 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I honestly doubt that the Jagex employee question in reference to "playing the game" has any relevance to UAT or is even appropriate to ask or accuse of.

Most development companies they have many factors to consider like internal concerns, majority of raised concerns, resources available/resources required and time available/time required. Combine this with demand and production and you have quite a long list to always address that can't please everyone.

With Runelabs this actually allows for popular ideas and common concerns to show so it makes things easier to prioritize and resolve by analyzing first with the factors I mentioned previously. A chance for us to have our voices heard to all.

Before anything is even considered to progress into UAT you have to understand those factors first and sorry if you weren't aware but unfortunately due to other projects, clans have had limited resources and we have seen some go out of their way to allocate their "personal resources" to helping clans like Mod Maz and Mod Matthe, I am very grateful for this and understand their position and limitations they have.

So instead of providing criticism and fighting with other leaders to prove your emotional point, it may be helpful to provide constructive feedback with a solution and rally support instead because concerns or suggestions cannot be addressed or resolved without a know how.

Some of the smallest viewed problems may require a very long overhaul in rewrite (this was already addressed in the "permission rewrite" thread anyway) and others may be do-able however please consider Mod Maz and Mod Matthe's capabilities and responsibilities within the company.

Maybe some day resources may be allocated more towards Clans but for now we need to appreciate the incredible efforts that Mod Maz and Mod Matthe have provided.

Thanks very much guys.

My physique is a product of my mindset

Macka#7877
-

Taiwanese Aussie Physique Bodybuilder

16-Feb-2016 15:32:26 - Last edited on 16-Feb-2016 15:32:54 by Macka

Oct

2005

Dracae

Posts: 3,827 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@ Ss Macka:

Well, thanks for the time you took telling me off..

However, wile you are correct that Jagex decides on their own priorities, that we can try to influence this trough Runelabs.. and ..dare I say it.. forums.. or is this not allowed anymore.. and while I certainly appreciate all the time any J-mod puts in to clans this does not change 2 things:

- Jagex has betrayed the trust of a part of the clancommunity by not doing as promised in regards to these clanrelated upgrades.

If you don't believe me, take a lil look these and other forums, there are whole articles, numerous lists and threads on this problem all across the net.

- Regardless if the general population or even the population of clans want updates to permissions and such more or less so then other updates Jagex has a a duty to its customers to make them actually work.

You are lucky to, I assume, not have had to deal with the fallout of the problematic clansystem (yet), but many people have! Just google it and you find the stories of whole clans destroyed.
This is NOT about pleasing me, or others, it is about the security of clans, and clanmembers and about a part of the game that needs to actually do what it is supposed to do, no more no less. No frills, no making our lives easier, no personal pet projects.. just simple functionality.
Besides this, in any business , with any service it is no more then reasonable to expect something we pay for to ACTUALLY WORK . Clans and the associated systems are not some gift by Jagex to us, they are part of something we pay for.

I totally understand this is not a fun subject for Jagex and its J-mods, Mod Maz and Matthe likely are not actually too blame themselves and they still have to deal with it..

So sorry, if you don't like it, but after waiting such a long time.. it is no more then normal to respectfully demand from Jagex that they do what we pay them for and it is better to say that here.. then complain across the net.

20-Feb-2016 12:32:49 - Last edited on 20-Feb-2016 12:39:37 by Dracae

Mar

2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Tyki Mikk said :
Dracae said :

I don't know what ' the community' wants, but many people I know would love to see less time spent on making new things and more on fixing obvious problems.

I think this is the real indication of the disconnect between the community and Jmods. I see nothing but love and borderline worship for people like the Ninjas and, recently, Mod Shauny who fix problems and address concerns. When smithing/mining rework was voted as the number one wanted update (over even a new continent I believe), the employees said they were surprised when really none of the players were because we've asked for years. This is further confirmed by the community voting for less updates in order to make sure the ones we get are solid and well-polished.

I know it has to be an ongoing internal dialogue within Jagex, but many people do want a focus on reviving and fixing of existing content (outside of updates we've already seen teased, we're too much of addicts to let go of teased content). The permission system is a small example, since I agree it's more of a QOL for clan leaders than a truly necessary update, but that's what I've seen at least. New updates make sexier front page updates than patches, fixes, and reworks, but I'm curious if recent polls are swaying current employees away from that model.

Spot on with that last remark, new content means shiny headlines and fancy looking artwork which is what Jagex seems to think will help the game, Jagex have become over obsessed with how they market their game that the real issues get overshadowed and put to the back of the line.

easy to convince the employees of runescape but its clear the owners minds are set on what they want and thats the problem, we cant convince them its an impossible task.

almost feels like Jagex are made up more of artists, community mods, statisticians and media than it is designers.

`*•.¸(*•.¸(`*•.¸+¸.•*´)¸.•*)¸.•*´
+«´¨`•°

SKILL SCHOOL

•´¨`»+
. .•*(¸.•*´(¸.•*´+`*•.¸)`*•.¸)*•.

23-Feb-2016 00:07:08 - Last edited on 23-Feb-2016 00:09:12 by Scret

Mar

2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Macka said :
I honestly doubt that the Jagex employee question in reference to "playing the game" has any relevance to UAT or is even appropriate to ask or accuse of.

Most development companies they have many factors to consider like internal concerns, majority of raised concerns, resources available/resources required and time available/time required. Combine this with demand and production and you have quite a long list to always address that can't please everyone.

With Runelabs this actually allows for popular ideas and common concerns to show so it makes things easier to prioritize and resolve by analyzing first with the factors I mentioned previously. A chance for us to have our voices heard to all.

Before anything is even considered to progress into UAT you have to understand those factors first and sorry if you weren't aware but unfortunately due to other projects, clans have had limited resources and we have seen some go out of their way to allocate their "personal resources" to helping clans like Mod Maz and Mod Matthe, I am very grateful for this and understand their position and limitations they have.

So instead of providing criticism and fighting with other leaders to prove your emotional point, it may be helpful to provide constructive feedback with a solution and rally support instead because concerns or suggestions cannot be addressed or resolved without a know how.

Some of the smallest viewed problems may require a very long overhaul in rewrite (this was already addressed in the "permission rewrite" thread anyway) and others may be do-able however please consider Mod Maz and Mod Matthe's capabilities and responsibilities within the company.

Maybe some day resources may be allocated more towards Clans but for now we need to appreciate the incredible efforts that Mod Maz and Mod Matthe have provided.

Thanks very much guys.

The only thing that saves us from the bureaucracy is its ineficency

`*•.¸(*•.¸(`*•.¸+¸.•*´)¸.•*)¸.•*´
+«´¨`•°

SKILL SCHOOL

•´¨`»+
. .•*(¸.•*´(¸.•*´+`*•.¸)`*•.¸)*•.

23-Feb-2016 00:11:03

Oct

2005

Dracae

Posts: 3,827 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I know I repeat myself, but when you have been around , my clan is almost 10 years old and I tend to talk too much , skill/ level / kill too little, you see that clans really have gotten hurt , some even destroyed by the problems with the permissions.
That should be unacceptable for us, but specially for Jagex itself.

Some has happened, Jagex has limited the number of peopel admins can kick a day, the option to set it so changes in ranks and such get broadcast ad a lil ' oversight' , but the underlying problem stays.

Besides this very practical problem I have one indeed rather emotional one.
I teach Dutch to foreigners at a college and we were talking about sayings today, one of them being : " Een man een man, een woord een word" Literaly translated : A man a man, a word a word.. I think most of you got it without the translation..
This obviously means : you have to keep your promises, your word ( to be considered a real 'man' or.. woman )
Jagex decides, this is their game, they hopefully know best, but when they promised to fix this.. they should have followed trough.. no matter what.. baring some huge disaster or emergency.
not doing so is still their prerogative, but the consequences are also theirs to bear. One of these is that while i still am a huge fan of the game, and I have the utmost respect for individual mods doing their jobs soo well, I no longer am capable of believing things claimed by Jagex , just because they say so.

Now, read this as an accusation, or as emotional, or as arguing, if you want.. but it is nothing but the honest truth and said in the hope that just maybe when some J-mods read this they realize the need to do sometime about this.

23-Feb-2016 21:14:10

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