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Aaron FTC

Aaron FTC

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To go a step further than Archaeox's post...

You are lucky enough to have already had Matthe check up on the ban,
and to have had a reply with him about it.


Collectively,
this forum section would do much better if as a whole we were more thankful,
and spent less time and effort talking shit about the J-Mods and the decisions we are informed of / involved in or how poorly we feel things are going.

What is their motivation to involve us or help us if we keep bitching.


A "Hey, Thanks a ton for the reply Mod Matthe.... But!....."

Would be much more likely to invite help or a desire to help,

Instead of "Don't ignore this!!!!....."



Even typing has a general feel behind things.

Being respectful and polite when making a request,
goes much farther than being impolite or angry at the one who you want help from.
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06-Dec-2015 05:09:18 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2015 05:12:48 by Aaron FTC

Warlock
Jan Member 2005

Warlock

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See, I'd completely disagree with that Aaron.

A large number of us are very grateful for what Maz/MattHe/the others who don't post as much do for our clans, and don't hold back our praise when it's warranted.

That said, we can't build a relationship where criticism is taken seriously and our views on topics are clear if we have to sugar-coat everything we post.

All the JMods are adults - they know that we don't (or at least, the vast majority of us don't, and those that do shouldn't, and don't reflect the majority attitude of this forum) hold anything against them personally, but this forum becomes next to useless everyone is too careful not to tread on any toes.

We aren't given many avenues to direct our (often very valid) criticism in a way that is actually responded to - the CLF plays a very important part in that.

06-Dec-2015 12:48:47

Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

Posts: 9,001 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hey CuddleBucket, I've been in the same situation as you years ago. One of my members was perm banned and claimed he didn't bot. A couple of months later he confessed he used an autoclicker to train Magic. Really stupid of him and he was a good friend of mine, but it's easy to tell lies on the internet. Especially when we have no way to know if they're telling the truth or not, all we can do is believe them. But Jagex can see whether a player bots or not. And they don't apply a permanent ban unless they're sure the player has been botting. I have no doubt you're sincere and want to help your friend and believe his words, but in this case it's his word against Jagex' evidence. All he could do is provide information that could've triggered botwatch (like certain computermodification that alter user input). If I were you I would let him take care of it, there's nothing left you can do.
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06-Dec-2015 19:55:13

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
CuddleBucket said :
I made an emotional plea in an emotional situation puting my name on the line purely at the word of a fellow clan member who has become a genuine friend in a relationship spanning 2 years. If Matthe wants to blame himself for offering to help, that's well within his rights, I'm VERY well aware that no good deed goes unpunished.

What is not ok is the manner in which it was handled after the offer of help - no update, & a very brief blunt uninformative response showing no compassion when I check back in after a week giving him time & space to do as he has offered. The person in question said the ban messages were in no way helpful & did not enlighten him in the least as to what he'd done. & I want to congratulate you guys on your compassion too - it was definitely worth pointing things out like text colour & everyone's claim of innocence, it was certainly relevant & valuable input.

Andras I left this forum a long time ago for the exact reasons in your very own thread. Being in here is banging your head against a brick wall. I came here as the only avenue I could think of to help my friend. Matthe it would be better off not offering to help if that is the level of help you are going to provide. I'm sorry this has turned not very nice, no doubt it comes across as petty, probably because it is. Matthe this is a CLF matter, because guess what? I am a Clan Leader, this is my forum, & this mattered to me. We can't run clans by ourself, especially large ones, & I just lost someone who worked side by side with me in supporting our clan.

No doubt you'll lock this, hide this, or something like that as you wouldn't want something with a shred of sense being seen by too many people.

It's the same old story...... I stand by my original messages to you, this person was very important to me & our clan, & after all this he is none the wiser as to what he has done.


You originally posted on the 29th and edited it on the 30th of November.

I made the following reply on the 30th November.

"It is often the case that Clan Leaders will make similar posts to this one on the Flag A Concern thread in an attempt to reach out to a JMod - if your friend has been banned it will already have been checked by a number of JMods before the ban was issued. If you give me the RSN for the account I will look at it but in all seriousness I am absolutely sure that the ban will be appropriate, sadly."

You posted the details the player had passed to you and your opinions on what happened over the 30th and the 1st.

The following day I took a look at the account in detail. spending over an hour of my day examining the evidence. It was pretty damning within about 2 minutes but I wanted to check. I did not post a reply as I wanted to check some stuff with the specialist ICU team though which I did late on the 3rd.

On the morning of the 4th you posted a thread asking me for the results and I posted them within half an hour of your request. While I understand you and your clannie may not be happy with the result I cannot discuss the details of the account and offenses with you as that would be inappropriate. The messages the player was sent were clear though in why they were being banned and I am absolutely confident in the accuracy of the ban.

An example - a massive proportion of the emails we receive to the community box are about bans. Each and every one starts off with a protest of innocence. It is after about the 3rd or 4th email that the account holder changes tack and apologies for having used an autoclicker or bot, but just for a short time. Another couple of emails and they admit botting for X many days but they wouldn't do it again if we let them have their account back. And so it goes on. Botters lie, sadly. And people who you are sure would never bot often have. It is not a good thing, but it is the way it is. Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

07-Dec-2015 09:32:27

CuddleBucket

CuddleBucket

Posts: 17,474 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I apologise for showing a lack of appreciation, & thank you very much for your time & the information.

I made an error of judgement & I am sorry.

You certainly went out of your way & it was a genuine kindness.

I now understand.


Edit:I wasn't sure til now that you took it seriously is all :(
I felt a bit brushed off & in our lives it is a very serious & significant event.
I see now you were busy & trying to be brief.
YOU WIN OR YOU LEARN

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07-Dec-2015 09:55:56 - Last edited on 07-Dec-2015 10:09:32 by CuddleBucket

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Warlock said :
See, I'd completely disagree with that Aaron.

A large number of us are very grateful for what Maz/MattHe/the others who don't post as much do for our clans, and don't hold back our praise when it's warranted.

That said, we can't build a relationship where criticism is taken seriously and our views on topics are clear if we have to sugar-coat everything we post.

All the JMods are adults - they know that we don't (or at least, the vast majority of us don't, and those that do shouldn't, and don't reflect the majority attitude of this forum) hold anything against them personally, but this forum becomes next to useless everyone is too careful not to tread on any toes.

We aren't given many avenues to direct our (often very valid) criticism in a way that is actually responded to - the CLF plays a very important part in that.

Criticism is fine. Best served with a little understanding but criticism is fine. Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

07-Dec-2015 10:00:24

CuddleBucket

CuddleBucket

Posts: 17,474 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I apologise for not understanding & I am more thankful for your time than I will express here, I understand the sacrifice you made & I'm sorry for the trouble

I'm now a Matthe fan < 3



EDIT:
Mod Matthe, for the record, it's no co-incidence you posted within half an hour of me.
I was posting on your schedule, trying to be present when I needed to be so that we could communicate & you didn't have to chase me up. It was my way of showing what little consideration I could, & that it was of special importance to me, trying to shoulder a small amount of the responsibility knowing the burden was all yours.
There is nobody like me. I am far more insane.
Thank you for going above & beyond.
I am sad of the result, but that sadness is completely exclusive of you. (I hope that makes sense)
YOU WIN OR YOU LEARN

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07-Dec-2015 10:03:58 - Last edited on 07-Dec-2015 11:26:56 by CuddleBucket

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
CuddleBucket said :
I apologise for showing a lack of appreciation, & thank you very much for your time & the information.

I made an error of judgement & I am sorry.

You certainly went out of your way & it was a genuine kindness.

I now understand.


Edit:I wasn't sure til now that you took it seriously is all :(
I felt a bit brushed off & in our lives it is a very serious & significant event.
I see now you were busy & trying to be brief.

We have to be brief. I cannot detail what was or was not done on the account. I cannot tell you the ways in which botting or autoclicking or macro injections evidence themselves.

So brief, formal, and precise. Sadly. Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

07-Dec-2015 10:11:04

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