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Citadel boosters..........?

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Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Mod Balance.

In regards to your earlier post, it just confuses me how an update like this can go through without Mod Matthe knowing about it, we first found out about it through the ge by a post on here from another player. Thats a horrific lack of communication from the MTX team. Not one person on the MTX thought that this might be interesting to Matthe or Maz?

How was this update even done without the core Mods to clans even knowing about it?


"EDIT2: As an addition; with this update, we aren't directly selling double XP. We're just increasing the speed at which you earn the XP - the cap remains the same so the only advantage is that it doesn't take as long to cap. Perhaps this can be turned into a positive for you guys too - if your clan mates have extra RuneCoins/LP they can spend that on a Clan Booster to cap super-quickly!"

Please spare us the commercial.
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10-Nov-2015 14:22:52 - Last edited on 10-Nov-2015 14:29:57 by Scret

Salcos

Salcos

Posts: 866 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
We are supposed to be let known about future clan updates to give our input on them before they are released. Also, using the foot-in-the-door technique, does this mean that the MTX team will be intervening within clans further? Are they the team running clans now? This update was hidden in some news post. But please mod balance, continue to defend this pile of cow dung we have suddenly became aware about.
Owner Of Prestige Legion
A high level bossing clan without the elitism

Computer Science Major

10-Nov-2015 16:21:13

Salcos

Salcos

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How can we be role models to our clan members, when we are running out of clan members to be role models to? Citadels are the only thing that seperates a clan from a friend chat.

People dont want to join clans anymore, and the only thing we get is "for the price of X amount of bonds..."
Owner Of Prestige Legion
A high level bossing clan without the elitism

Computer Science Major

10-Nov-2015 16:23:25

Alan
Nov Member 2007

Alan

Posts: 8,771 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi there, gonna throw in my 2 sense. I run a small - medium size clan, we have 78 people in it define size how you may, and a t4 citadel w/ 2 avas. Actively we have 30-40 players who play daily. Citadel wise we struggle. Atm we have a t4 citadel, and barely meet upkeep for that. Thats with me capping on 2 accounts, and capping on both avas. The reason behind this is no one wants to cap. It takes 2 hours or so, and although good for lower-mid lvls is garbage for maxed/higher level players.

Yesterday I capped took me about 2 hours afking w/ the 10% cap buff avatar. In this time I received 235k wcing and 43k smithing xp. I have bxp in both skills. As someone with 99 in both skills, and access to every training method, thats absolute garbage for xp rates. Crystal trees are ~110k/hr afking, teaks w/ urns + light form + crystallize is 250k/hr. Double that with bxp. Smithing with rune bars making r2h, which is profit, is 300k/hr.

The rates are outdated towards the maxed end of the community. Back in late 2010 when I maxed, I was the first person in my clan todo so. Now my clan has 38 people who are maxed. Most of them roll their eyes at citadel work, and scrape together upkeep to be able to keep avatars for 6%. At first this booster excited them. They they looked at the price laughed and went back to their normal rs lives, and the citadel was once again left teetering on the edge of dilapidation. For 1 booster, which only works for you, it costs 100 runecoins. thats 54% of a bond's runecoin value. Bonds are currently 11.3m, which makes it to 5.74m to save an hr of capping. even for the xp rates, its not worth it.

Tl;dr boosters instantly became dead content cause capping at the citadel is painful for most players and they only do it to maintain an avatar and the gp cost isn't worth it.

side note- In my clan to maintain avatar warden I require you to cap weekly. I don't require you to cap if you don't want ava warden cause no one wants to cap.
@RSNAlan
The Fallen
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10-Nov-2015 16:59:12

Subzero

Subzero

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@Mod Balance,

Thank you for the reply, I seek to address your points below.

Mod Balance said :
I don't think it would be humanly possible for Mod Matthe (amongst others) to campaign any harder for clan related content. As a team (CM), we push hard for content which we believe would have a positive effect on clans.


Whilst you may assert that it is not humanly possible to push for clan content any more than you currently do, this effort is not evidenced physically whatsoever in terms of game content.

Whilst I understand, as a games artist myself, that content within games expends considerable effort to release, quite frankly, the quality of the content in this game has been declining over the past years, with less quality and quantity of updates. The only aspects of content I can generally say has improved is the narratives and the aesthetics (sound/visuals.) The games design of Jagex's content is generally hit and miss, and has been throughout the history of the game.

I feel it is important for myself to highlight that, specifically, whilst I did aim my post towards the reply of MattHe, I emphasised that fault lies with your managers, not the workforce. Put bluntly, the people with real power at Jagex have absolutely no idea what they are doing, and care only about money - not the health or design of the game. I feel that as developers, you should do as much as you can to preserve the design integrity of the game, without allowing, quite frankly, poor MTX implementation to corrupt what little preserved aspects of the game you have remaining.
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

10-Nov-2015 17:07:58

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Balance said :
[...] if it were me who was in this forum day-in-day-out then I feel I would have lost some of the desire to help you guys out. At times it's as if some individuals in this forum blame the likes of Mod Matthe, Mod Maz, and Mod Moltare for a lack of updates, despite the fact that it is they who campaign hardest for you guys.


Again, whilst I understand that you have very little, if any, control over game content, there should not be threads such as the "Clan Plan" unless there is some reasonable promise of their implementation. The push of that thread to public will have been a CM decision, and whilst I understand, again, that the thread was not a promise, it was heavily inferred that many of those features would be implemented in 2015 - this, however, seems to have no chance at materialising.

Mod Balance said :
Without them, I can guarantee that clans wouldn't be on our radar as much.


Are they even on the radar for significant development at all ? I mean, aside from the MTX update that was shoehorned into Citadels, we haven't really had much Clan content at all this year. We've had a few small things such as the probation period, the Kiln plot rework, but nothing that strikes me as largely memorable or gamechanging for clans - which is what we really need.
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

10-Nov-2015 17:14:48 - Last edited on 10-Nov-2015 17:29:53 by Subzero

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Balance said :
There's a lot that you guys don't see going on behind the scenes - and I don't think you give enough credit to your strongest advocates.


II feel that the CLF Staff are generally, fairly credited, and applauded, for when they are honest, and helpful towards us. On a thread I created recently, for example, Mod Maz was credited for her honesty, and I personally thanked her for being a good developer - I am yet to see any serious levels of disrespect or "discrediting" occurring against staff members.

If anyone does feel discredited, then honestly, it should be understood why they are being discredited; it's not necessarily because they aren't doing a good job, it's more likely to be that because there's nothing to show for it - after all, that's all that most players are going to be interested in; they want a result, not a good effort.

Mod Balance said :
As clan leaders, the best thing you can do is continue to be great role models for your clan members.


This can be difficult to achieve when the game's managers are not good role models for the developers, by having them ruin their own game with MTX. Furthermore, as you lose most of your best player's attitudes by flooding the game with MTX (which is irrefutable, RuneScape was ruined with MTX). It's hard for anyone to stay positive when a game then enjoy is being run, quite bluntly, into the ground.

Mod Balance said :
You don't need to be positive about everything we do; it's good to have an opinion and want better for your clans - that's why we take your feedback - but you need to understand that we can't give you limitless resources.


Again, I understand, but threads such as the Clan Plan should never have been presented at all, if, realistically, they were never going to materialise - set the bar low, then supersede it. :)
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

10-Nov-2015 17:17:57 - Last edited on 11-Nov-2015 03:40:24 by Subzero

Norne
Jan
fmod Member
2012

Norne

Forum Moderator Posts: 76,250 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Scret said :
@Mod Balance.

In regards to your earlier post, it just confuses me how an update like this can go through without Mod Matthe knowing about it, we first found out about it through the ge by a post on here from another player. Thats a horrific lack of communication from the MTX team. Not one person on the MTX thought that this might be interesting to Matthe or Maz?

How was this update even done without the core Mods to clans even knowing about it?



Assuming jagex commented the basics of clan code then maz wouldn't be required much I imagine. Not sure about matthe, would seem logical to talk to him - about if clans would like it, etc. Guess not.
"When history witnesses a great change, Razgriz reveals itself... first, as a dark demon. As a demon, it uses its power to rain death upon the land, and then it dies. However, after a period of slumber, Razgriz returns, this time, as a great hero"

10-Nov-2015 17:27:47

Tyki Mikk

Tyki Mikk

Posts: 906 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Balance said :

EDIT2: As an addition; with this update, we aren't directly selling double XP. We're just increasing the speed at which you earn the XP - the cap remains the same so the only advantage is that it doesn't take as long to cap. Perhaps this can be turned into a positive for you guys too - if your clan mates have extra RuneCoins/LP they can spend that on a Clan Booster to cap super-quickly!


Please see previous post on how X2 speed is really no different than X2 exp. Let me summarize with simple numbers and assumptions.

Let's say 2 people have time to play Runescape 1 hour a day.

Both individuals decide to cap at citadel, which usually takes 1 hour and gives 1k exp.

Player 1 doesn't buy boost, earns 1k total for his play session.

Player 2 buys boost, earns 1k in half his play session, then earns another 1k outside of citadel.

Players 1 made no mtx, earned 1k, Player 2 made mtx, earned 2k.

MTX directly led to double experience. This would be worse in reality because citadel isn't terrific exp and can take longer than an hour.
Tyki Mikk
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10-Nov-2015 21:34:46

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