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It was actually super casual, hence the air quotes, yet it was still something that some others really appreciated happening. The conversation that happened was as follows:
Him: Why do woman [sic] have to be so difficult
Me: *Soandso*, stop trying to hit on women so immediately
Me: It's offensive
Me: That might be why you're receiving the responses you're receiving
I used the word "might" and included a
, so as not to offend lol. But what happened made me realize that as clan leaders, we have a moral responsibility to stand up for things that others are uncomfortable with, even if you or someone else might not be uncomfortable because of the same things. So long as someone's freedom of expression and speech isn't infringed *too* much, we should be actively mindful of other's concerns, even if they're unexpressed.
Also, this guy targets me in the clan chat, and I ignore him and I don't take him seriously because I don't respect him enough, but his actions nonetheless--even when they're toward me--still make others uncomfortable.
Very Vera | Join Nomad ! | Inform Yourselves | Forum Help
Him: Why do woman [sic] have to be so difficult
Me: *Soandso*, stop trying to hit on women so immediately
Me: It's offensive
Me: That might be why you're receiving the responses you're receiving
I used the word "might" and included a
, so as not to offend lol. But what happened made me realize that as clan leaders, we have a moral responsibility to stand up for things that others are uncomfortable with, even if you or someone else might not be uncomfortable because of the same things. So long as someone's freedom of expression and speech isn't infringed *too* much, we should be actively mindful of other's concerns, even if they're unexpressed.
Also, this guy targets me in the clan chat, and I ignore him and I don't take him seriously because I don't respect him enough, but his actions nonetheless--even when they're toward me--still make others uncomfortable.
VIVLOVESVIX
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Very Vera | Join Nomad ! | Inform Yourselves | Forum Help
29-Mar-2016 20:07:47 - Last edited on 29-Mar-2016 20:15:31 by Vera
Archaeox
said
:
Well yeah... as clan leaders we are responsible for making sure the atmosphere in the clan is good and not poisonous. That's a given, but when and how?
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, if they do something that I might not approve of. Sometimes I say something or act in a way that doesn't reflect how I actually feel about something, and as such others might be the same.
I actually also used to "pounce" on people too soon, without giving them a real chance to adjust their behavior based on responses they're perceiving. However, especially online, and especially with the bias that what you mean is coming off clearly in what you say, it's honestly really difficult how to gauge how people feel about you unless you elicit direct responses.
For example, I have virtually no idea what you guys think of me, given my silly posts in the CLF, or even your thoughts on my more serious ones. But I do know that
In regards to my forum posts overall, I've also deliberately asked people what they've thought of my posts, and of me. Mostly positive impressions, though a lot of "but I really didn't understand your fangirl posts..." After hearing that, I can now honestly say the same LOL.
Because people perceive themselves and others so differently, it's important not to "step in" too soon, even in private chat, because you have to gauge the potential risks and outcomes. And every clan, and then each person within that clan, is different in regards to what's okay or not.
Typing out this post and talking about different viewpoints, I think the best way to address unsavory behavior is to pm that person asking where they're coming from, and guiding their thought process to a more mindful one if necessary. It's less confrontational and drastically less offensive.
Very Vera | Join Nomad ! | Inform Yourselves | Forum Help
Well yeah... as clan leaders we are responsible for making sure the atmosphere in the clan is good and not poisonous. That's a given, but when and how?
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, if they do something that I might not approve of. Sometimes I say something or act in a way that doesn't reflect how I actually feel about something, and as such others might be the same.
I actually also used to "pounce" on people too soon, without giving them a real chance to adjust their behavior based on responses they're perceiving. However, especially online, and especially with the bias that what you mean is coming off clearly in what you say, it's honestly really difficult how to gauge how people feel about you unless you elicit direct responses.
For example, I have virtually no idea what you guys think of me, given my silly posts in the CLF, or even your thoughts on my more serious ones. But I do know that
Lisa
finds my posts somewhat entertaining, because she says she likes seeing how I react to familiar faces
In regards to my forum posts overall, I've also deliberately asked people what they've thought of my posts, and of me. Mostly positive impressions, though a lot of "but I really didn't understand your fangirl posts..." After hearing that, I can now honestly say the same LOL.
Because people perceive themselves and others so differently, it's important not to "step in" too soon, even in private chat, because you have to gauge the potential risks and outcomes. And every clan, and then each person within that clan, is different in regards to what's okay or not.
Typing out this post and talking about different viewpoints, I think the best way to address unsavory behavior is to pm that person asking where they're coming from, and guiding their thought process to a more mindful one if necessary. It's less confrontational and drastically less offensive.
VIVLOVESVIX
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Very Vera | Join Nomad ! | Inform Yourselves | Forum Help
30-Mar-2016 21:35:58
This is an interesting post, Vivy.
Our chat topics range from silly to serious.
Things got pretty somber earlier in the week. One of our long-time members serves in the military. Several weeks ago, he returned home after being shot. He had several surgeries and was recovering at home when he got a call informing him that his entire squad had been killed. To say he is devastated would be an understatement.. He returned to Afghanistan this week to lead a new squad. His brother is in our clan and we've tried to support him as best we can.
So we occasionally talk about difficult things and personal struggles and try to encourage each other in life as well as in the game. When it seems more serious conversations have run their course, our leaders try to lighten the mood.
In the rare instance that someone blurts out an obscenity or starts to be rude, most times someone else will remind them that's not acceptable in our clan (and to look out and not to displease Espy lol). I hardly ever have to enforce the rules myself anymore, which is really nice.
I also recall an instance where someone made a very chauvinistic remark. While I was re-reading what he wrote because I was in disbelief of what had been said, one of the other young men asked him why he'd say that, inquiring what decade he was living in. We had a nice, civil conversation about it and then moved on to chatting amiably about something related to the game. Afterwards, I was thinking that I hoped the one young man had been enlightened somewhat and had changed his outlook on certain things!
Our chat topics range from silly to serious.
Things got pretty somber earlier in the week. One of our long-time members serves in the military. Several weeks ago, he returned home after being shot. He had several surgeries and was recovering at home when he got a call informing him that his entire squad had been killed. To say he is devastated would be an understatement.. He returned to Afghanistan this week to lead a new squad. His brother is in our clan and we've tried to support him as best we can.
So we occasionally talk about difficult things and personal struggles and try to encourage each other in life as well as in the game. When it seems more serious conversations have run their course, our leaders try to lighten the mood.
In the rare instance that someone blurts out an obscenity or starts to be rude, most times someone else will remind them that's not acceptable in our clan (and to look out and not to displease Espy lol). I hardly ever have to enforce the rules myself anymore, which is really nice.
I also recall an instance where someone made a very chauvinistic remark. While I was re-reading what he wrote because I was in disbelief of what had been said, one of the other young men asked him why he'd say that, inquiring what decade he was living in. We had a nice, civil conversation about it and then moved on to chatting amiably about something related to the game. Afterwards, I was thinking that I hoped the one young man had been enlightened somewhat and had changed his outlook on certain things!
30-Mar-2016 22:51:22 - Last edited on 30-Mar-2016 22:52:04 by Esploratore
"Cadbury, an exclusively seasonal chocolatier"
Er, what?
I wouldn't eat a lot of chocolate if they were. They're definitely not seasonal in my neck of the woods.
93-94-178-66118830
Er, what?
I wouldn't eat a lot of chocolate if they were. They're definitely not seasonal in my neck of the woods.
Lumine
Patrona Emerita
of the
Patrona Emerita
Caped Carousers
quest cape clan
93-94-178-66118830
31-Mar-2016 01:58:36
Esploratore
, thanks for sharing your stories
Haha, asking what century someone was living in--that's a perfect example of powerful but indirect social feedback!
When I first joined my clan, we had a regular guest who was talking about how his daughter and his wife died only after a few years of family life, which is just tragic. I was the one who was most trying to comfort him, since I wanted to help, but his closed mindedness toward all our stories, suggestions, and support made the conversation one that I no longer wanted to have. (He wasn't verbally acknowledging the support we were giving him, which is fine, but it also means there's no guarantee he actually read our words.)
And I don't blame him--he was stuck in an emotional rut and had been thinking in a certain way for such a long time, and focusing on the negative is an easy trap to fall into--but nonetheless, it was something I didn't want continuing for as long as it did, especially how it precluded other conversation that would have felt disrespectful to have, in the clan.
If that happened again--to the negativity and length of time as it did last time--now I would change the subject for the purpose of distracting the original person, after having his few minutes of sharing his story. I've noticed that for myself as well, my friends are people who are more powerful at distracting me and making me feel happy, than they are for giving me sympathy, which only goes so far in terms of actually making me feel better. After realizing that, I don't consider changing the conversation per se to be rude, but I'm still learning how to tactfully do so.
VIVLOVESVIX
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Very Vera | Join Nomad ! | Inform Yourselves | Forum Help
31-Mar-2016 17:18:31
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