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03-Jan-2017 04:54:59

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Let me start by saying I appreciate the hard work that's gone into setting up the Google Spreadsheet and survey. :)

However to be honest, personally I would not appreciate my clan/community being publicly rated out of 10, as if it's values are something that a simple number can represent.

Furthermore, the data you're collecting is biased towards being negative feedback as your sample is only from clanmates who have left clans; most people leave clans because they were dissatisfied, resulting in most of the feedback being negative. (Supporting this, all of the survey questions are phrased in the past-tense.)

Whenever I have set up anonymous surveys for my Clan I always leave a comment box for every question to make sure I'm collecting actual feedback and not just a numerical rating. A number out of 10 is useless for feedback.

Who exactly are P.U.R.G.E.? I noticed in your signature you have a line about "RuneScape Crime Tracking". When I read this spreadsheet the first thing that crossed my mind was it's potential for naming & shaming, and the line in your signature about RuneScape Crime Tracking concerns me. What is your actual goal of this spreadsheet? Is it to support what you rate as best clans, or to witch-hunt the ones you see as worst?

Having this sort of data be publicly available puts unnecessary pressure on Clan staff, and a "Ratings" list for Clans makes it seem like clans are a public service and not a community of friends/peers with similar interests - the latter is what most Clans are.

Essentially, if I ever wanted to collect valuable feedback on my Clan, then I'd set up my own Survey (which is pretty easy to do with Surveymonkey, anyone who plays RuneScape could do it).
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

03-Jan-2017 14:46:37 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2017 20:00:33 by Subzero

SpectreGh0st

SpectreGh0st

Posts: 47 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Subzero said :
Furthermore, the data you're collecting is biased towards being negative feedback as your sample is only from clanmates who have left clans; most people leave clans because they were dissatisfied, resulting in most of the feedback being negative. (Supporting this, all of the survey questions are phrased in the past-tense.)

Whenever I have set up anonymous surveys for my Clan I always leave a comment box for every question to make sure I'm collecting actual feedback and not just a numerical rating. A number out of 10 is useless for feedback. There is a response option to say that you're a current member of the clan you're rating. In regards to the phrasing of the questions, I'd be happy to forward your concerns to some of our other staff and see if we can change the phrasing to present tense without harming current responses.

As far as comment boxes, the survey does have a comment box at the end, if people have anything they'd like to say. The reason why we don't have a comment box on every question is because the answers are automatically placed into a Spreadsheet, and it'd very quickly get cluttered and unreadable if everyone left comments on each question - especially because the ratings on the spreadsheets are going to turn into averages when multiple people rate the same clan.

03-Jan-2017 17:28:37

SpectreGh0st

SpectreGh0st

Posts: 47 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Subzero said :
Who exactly are P.U.R.G.E.? I noticed in your signature you have a line about "RuneScape Crime Tracking". When I read this spreadsheet the first thing that crossed my mind was it's potential for naming & shaming, and the line in your signature about RuneScape Crime Tracking concerns me. What is your actual goal of this spreadsheet? Is it to support what you rate as best clans, or to witch-hunt the ones you see as worst? P.U.R.G.E. is an organization on Runescape that helps provide services to players and clans, although it is not an "official" Runescape clan. The RS Crime Tracker is a completely separate entity from Clan Score: They are not connected to each other in any way, nor does information from one get passed on to the other. The only similarities they share are both being owned by P.U.R.G.E. and developed by our Dacian Division.

As said before, all responses are reviewed by P.U.R.G.E. staff to check for dishonest reviews, which does include "Naming and Shaming." The goal of the spreadsheet is for players to be able to review ratings of Clans on it, to have more information on a clan they may be thinking of joining.

Think of it like the website rating service "Web of Trust." You could easily argue that sites with bad reviews are just the result of witch-hunting, but at the end of the day the reviews are all checked for any fraud. The same holds true with the Clan Score project - we do check to make sure there's no fraud or witch-hunting.


I hope this answered some of your concerns. Please let me know if there's anything else you're worried about.

03-Jan-2017 17:33:09 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2017 17:33:38 by SpectreGh0st

Kera
Aug Member 2010

Kera

Posts: 11,100 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
How exactly do you check for fraud ?

I've taken a look at the spreadsheet and fail to see how exactly the questions can tell you how good or otherwise a clan is.

People look for one that offers what they want.
That doesn't mean a clan with a T7 is better than a clan with no citadel at all .
A clan who doesn't organise events doesnt have to be a bad clan, only that the people in the clan don't want events.
Offsite forums or voice chat might be great for some people, but others want to avoid them. So the simple yes/no or frequency of these things doesn't make a clan better or worse than any other.

I have no interest in your spreadsheet, and agree with what Subzero has said, though no doubt you will continue on regardless of our opinions and our clans will be judged.
Kera:
Proud leader of Shattered Moon

03-Jan-2017 18:40:58 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2017 18:52:55 by Kera

SpectreGh0st

SpectreGh0st

Posts: 47 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kera said :
How exactly do you check for fraud ?

I've taken a look at the spreadsheet and fail to see how exactly the questions can tell you how good or otherwise a clan is.

People look for one that offers what they want.
That doesn't mean a clan with a T7 is better than a clan with no citadel at all .
A clan who doesn't organise events doesnt have to be a bad clan, only that the people in the clan don't want events.
Offsite forums or voice chat might be great for some people, but others want to avoid them. So the simple yes/no or frequency of these things doesn't make a clan better or worse than any other.

I have no interest in your spreadsheet, and agree with what Subzero has said, though no doubt you will continue on regardless of our opinions and our clans will be judged. As checking for fraud is not my area, I don't know the fine details. That said, it wouldn't be very hard to check on something such as Citadel tier.

People do look for the clan they want, that is true. If they want a clan with no events of external services, the spreadsheet will allow them to find that. Our spreadsheet doesn't make any claims about events or the quality of a clan as a result of that. It makes no implications of a clan being "bad" for not having events - if that's your assumption on the spreadsheet then you're misinterpreting it.

If you think we're saying a clan is bad for not having events of voicechat, then you're completely wrong. It's just so players can narrow down what clans they may be interested in.

Now, following feedback from CLF, some changes have been made:

-Questions have been rephrased to present tense, due to complaints about being biased towards negative feedback.
-Question #2 has been rephrased completely.
-Question #7 has been updated to use a linear scale.

03-Jan-2017 19:15:34

SpectreGh0st

SpectreGh0st

Posts: 47 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
And yes, the spreadsheet and forms will remain open regardless of "approval" of the CLF. P.U.R.G.E. does not operate under the authority of CLF, nor under the authority of Jagex. It operates independently of both, providing optional services for players to use. The more players who utilize our services, the more effective those services can be.

Whether people on CLF "approve" of the project or not, it will stay open, so I personally do recommend you leave ratings for your clans so they can be on the list for future recruits to view.

03-Jan-2017 19:17:27

Ceecs
Mar Member 2010

Ceecs

Posts: 16,166 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I rather not take part in such a rating for the above reasons. Also I don't think you can compare all clans to another.

All clans are unique in their own way, some clans focus on PvM while others focus on Skilling or events or are just Social clans to bring and help a large group of people with citadel/avatar/question/...

In my opinion u can not compare a PvM clan to a Skilling clan and such for that reason. Ceecs - leader of Ceecs Clan
Rank in Star Find, Harmed Ore, Beach FC | Ex-Rank in Fast SC

Ceecs Clan: DUTCH ONLY RS3 clan & Winner of the Iron Skilled Cup 2015!

03-Jan-2017 19:24:35

Kera
Aug Member 2010

Kera

Posts: 11,100 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
oh but look at how people describe the offsite stuff - i see 2 occasions of the word bad there already. That isn't really open to misinterpretation.

To be honest, even by just calling yourselves Purge sets the wrong tone from the get go

Purge : to rid of whatever is impure or undesirable; cleanse; purify

I'm still very interested in how you prevent fraud - someone doesn't need go to your site to see a clans citadel Tier. The rest of the questions are subjective and open to abuse in either direction.
Kera:
Proud leader of Shattered Moon

03-Jan-2017 19:37:22

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