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undo quest requirement updates

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Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

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Also there are some oddball accounts out there I imagine. Like someone who has 120 slayer exclusively and no other skill trained, but cannot buy the cape since they cannot access barbarian cave due to firemaking requirement. I'm not here to really speculate on the types of accounts that exist or their individual playstyles, just to say that retroactively changing a quest requirement to make it more limiting is stupid and should never be done. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

03-Apr-2023 19:37:03

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Yeah obviously MTX does exist. But what exactly would be the difference if somebody buys himself up to some medium levelled quest in contrary to high levelled things, that never were able to be boosted in the first place? None of the skills nowadays would be as broken in a fashion as the state they started to exploit via MTX in the first place more than 10 years ago. Even with them already having exploited those broken skills they fixed them - things like agility only extremely late - but they did it.

Doubtfully pulse cores were the issue, since they were a few years older than this change. In general there are more powerful boosters available than back in the day. Pulse core is a glaring offender for some skills (archaeology!), but a lot of non-combat skills nowadays can be boosted by up to 13 levels with a fitting extreme potion. Agility also has a powerful around 10-ish booster via clan citadels. And other than that most skills can be boosted at least by 5 levels in some way.

RfD is one of two out of almost two-hundred-fifty quests that are not targeted at one singular audience when it comes to how progressed they are. Every. Other. Quest. - with the exception of succession and every quest released after that - had had a quest difficulty, that often was more than questionable even back in the day - but basically described the intended audience. RfD would have been targeted at novice to master players at the very same time - basically like a real quest series, huh? Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

03-Apr-2023 19:52:14 - Last edited on 03-Apr-2023 19:55:06 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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And well - you say it's inconsistent - over an update, that adjusted the behaviour of very old quests (and not even then it was consistent, when you weren't able to accept all quest if you do not meet their requirements and not even always able to boost them - you had to check very closely if a boost was possible, which sometimes only is a thing for some of the requirements of one singular quest .) to what basically was a thing for all new quest from whenever onwards? That's literally creating a state of consistency, that never was there before. There is one singular rule now - you meet the requirements in order to do a quest - in contrary to quests that all up to a certain point behaved somehow differently. I generally think it can only help if things at least do not glaringly feel like they just would belong into a different game, which RSC and early RS2 era quests often do for a multitude of reasons, which Stu has fixed for quite a few things already.

As said - if your issue solely is that some old account can use a feature a new one with the same restrictions never will be due to this - disable it from the old one, until he fulfills the new requirements.

The cape thing is interesting - the slayer cape always was locked in some fashion. Previously by the shilo village quest, now by access to barbarian firemaking. They moved the fletching master out of the ranging guild for the same reason shortly after the capes were first released. But again - that's a price you've got to pay by restricting yourself. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

03-Apr-2023 19:55:55 - Last edited on 03-Apr-2023 20:06:40 by Rikornak

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

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It's obviously an inconsistency with the way the content has been released. Fur n Seek has a follow up wish list 'miniquest' of sorts, to unlock the bonesack(e) or ram skull(e), but does not actually require you to have 78 slayer to begin that type of content. It even has a 'quest reward interface' but is functionally not a "quest" in the sense you can start it without 78 slayer.

this is what the original intention of many quests were, something you can start and then finish later once you have acquired all the skills. another inconsistency by having something like this follow-up miniquest, which is functionally an identical quest to fur n seek, being able to start without the slayer req.

if you say, well, it's so you can collect the bones early! then the same would apply to the actual fur n seek quest which cannot be boosted with 25 slay req.

these inconsistencies are unnecessary and against the original design of the game. why shouldn't you be able to start collecting the bones for fur n seek before hitting 25 slayer? you can collect the bones for the follow up wishlist, which is basically the same exact quest but different slayer monsters, before hitting 78 slayer.



I've also not explored this personally, but I assume that fur n seek is actually possible to complete without the slayer req if DTDs are used, so under the same logic that family crest is now available without magic req then fur n seek should be as well. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

03-Apr-2023 20:09:14 - Last edited on 03-Apr-2023 20:12:02 by Immortalized

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Both wishlists are not miniquests for that matter, they're post quest activities, which for itself becomes an entirely different can of worms, since lots of quests feature post quest activities than partially be completed as soon as the quest itself, partially only much later. But the consistent rule is you can attempt them as soon as you've complete the according quest(s) - if you can complete them would be something entirely different.

OS basically only had the first quest + wish list as post quest activity - and they later changed said post quest activity to a real quest with QP reward. RS2/3 did nothing - it's not a quest, it's not a miniquest, it's a post quest activity. Like tons of others to do if you one day want to wear a MQC.

If it's dartable, it would be adequate to change the slayer requirement into a recommendation - totally right - but that would be a hard requirement changed to a recommendation. Not some accepting of a quest, you can't complete at all unless you grind out a few dozens more of levels. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

03-Apr-2023 20:16:07 - Last edited on 03-Apr-2023 20:25:41 by Rikornak

Bertel62
Aug Member 2023

Bertel62

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Immortalized said :
I agree with your statement that the game should be designed the way designers want it to be designed, not by how employees over 10 years later have changed it.
Yes it should, because they are the designers now. It doesn't matter what people did 10 years ago when the game has evovled in the meantime. If a game needs a change, then change it. Don't be hindered by people who already play it.

04-Apr-2023 19:31:31

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Just because something had been that way for a very long time doesn't justify it not to be eventually fixed (just take a look at some of the quests stu worked on - olaf's quest was the worst one, but I can imagine that a lot of those quests highly benefited to behave like something that wasn't released almost two decades ago - it's just a fact, that quests usually became better in terms of mechanics the newer they are). It's an MMO - things change all the time and while OS keeps a lot of the bullshit of old quests, it doesn't keep all the bullshit. You probably would've been off best with RSC as a time capsule while it still was a thing. I mean for some reason you were happy to see that Family Crest got the hard requirement cut. Original design also hadn't allowed you to bypass it, it strictly enforced the magic requirement to complete the quest, bypass only was possible after some change after all.

While your issue wasn't technically broken, it just outright was changed into consistent behaviour to the remaining game - since a player also might ask why for instance you weren't able to boost higher levelled quests, when it sometimes was possible for some skills in an earlier point of his progression. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

05-Apr-2023 12:22:33 - Last edited on 05-Apr-2023 12:25:21 by Rikornak

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

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You fundamentally misunderstand my stance here. I am against content that was accessible before becoming inaccessible later. It is that simple.

I would not have personally allowed the family crest req to be cut. But the fact is that you could complete the quest with a death touched dart, possibly due to oversight by jagex. And people very well did so. That became the new bare minimum requirement because it became possible. To go back and deny it after it has been allowed is making it inaccessible for the same type of player.

I question who this update caters to. Were there many people genuinely confused that you could boost and confused about quests that never let you? I do not think so. The game never tells you that you can boost, and it is happy to tell you the requirements to complete a quest in the quest journal before you begin it. So this is a strawman to me, that there is some player out there that this update addressed because they were confused about the inconsistency, something they would only really know was possible if they checked the wiki and found out a stat was boostable. And if you start a quest without the stat requirements, which are clearly presented to you in the quest journal before you click "Accept" quest, every single time, well is it really anyone but your fault for thinking you could complete it?

This type of player being catered to, a clueless quester stumbling into quests they cannot complete (but thought they could), simply does not exist AFAIK. What this update really did was hurt people who enjoy quests and want to do them as soon as they can, and certain type of skill pures that avoid certain skills but are now forced to play like a regular one-day-maxed player would. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

05-Apr-2023 19:11:21

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

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Dragon Slayer had a similar issue where the map piece could be obtained without 32 magic by using area loot instead of telekinetic grab. That was obviously broken but introduced a new playstyle of beating DS without training magic. And Jagex has kept with it, now having a proper update to the quest to avoid having to use telekinetic grab to obtain the map piece after many years of it being an unavoidable thing. This is the same thing. Quest requirements should never become more restrictive in the future. If they were possible with fewer reqs in the past, they should maintain that minimum-amount of reqs going forward. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

05-Apr-2023 19:13:44

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