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Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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*Hugs Bawa* :)
Hehe, that reminded me a little of Zatevon's comment:
"English that story was told amazingly...I don't know how to describe the story. It was so very well written."
It's not just you, lol, though I wonder how you'd feel were a number of readers struggled to describe your story...would you feel flattered, moved, or sigh with loss and regret? I certainly feel flattered here hehe.
I'd rather have a post from the heart, than anything :)
You're so generous, Bawa. :O You'd reread this over and over? You'd get bored lol. Like me. I feel like in part I'm immune to the storyline so it doesn't get to me that it ended this way. But such high praise...what an honour, sir!
Actually, I have some questions to ask you, if you don't mind.
What did you think of the epilogue, and the ending of the story? For me, the epilogue is not as well written as the other parts of the story. But then again, I spent the least time on it, as I wrote this chronologically. Did it come across as a slight let down from the previous chapter?
Which is your favourite chapter? Which is your favourite character?
Which is your least favourite chapter, and character? :P
Were the paragraphs like blocks of text and difficult to penetrate/read? Where was the narrative at its weakest?
Was Chapter 1 boring?
Lastly, did you have any time to have a think in the Food for thoughts section? And what did you think of Ronny and Edward's relationship?
Once again, thank you for the post. And what nonsense, anybody can write like me, given the practise and having put enough thought behind their work.

07-Jan-2011 15:28:03

Dark Enmity

Dark Enmity

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Hello English, I hope you remember me, but if you don’t, then I guess I was a momentary blur in your life, but hopefully you do, because I sure remember you. It’s nice seeing you again, and I finally got around to this story, and it is wonderful. Though it is more excellently executed then the Priceless, I wouldn’t go as far as saying this story is better, plot-wise. Just different. I will give you a small Review, but it will mostly be my opinions on the story, because this did spark the debatable ghost in me.
“I believe it is a choice.”
The instant I say this I knew exactly what this story would be about, for two reasons. One, I remember the conversation you had with someone that brought about this quote, though I forget who exactly uttered those words (I assume you disagreed with them, or this story would not have been produced—as do I). The other reason was I had a faint idea you wanted to, in Laymen’s terms, create a better version of “The Priceless*.
If you don’t mind I will answer the questions that you offered to Bawa as well.
In all honestly, I thought the Epilogue was this story’s weakest point. It was also the chapter that I put the least focus into reading, almost to the point of skimming every other sentence. It wasn’t that it was boring, I just don’t think there was anything new learned in this particular chapter. I felt it was a summary of Ronny’s emotions.
Although this may be shocking, my least favorite character was Edward. In my mind he had a villanious side, masked by his persona to the world. This is just my opinion though, and although you can never completely see it because of the actions of others, I can’t help but see it’s there. I would even go as far as saying that he is the most evil character in this story, for reasons I can explain and you can contradict, if you like.

08-Jan-2011 06:35:41 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2011 07:52:40 by Dark Enmity

Dark Enmity

Dark Enmity

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Chapter one was not boring, but it wasn’t the most interesting. I do prefer action though, and am not a big fan of long thoughts. What I really love is dialogue and you have some great stuff in here.
Ironically, Tyler was my favorite character. He was lovable and innocent, though this may be just because little about him is really known and if my knowledge is correct, we never get him to tell his story in this tale except for a letter.
My favorite chapter? Definately the one where Ronny tells on Edward. The audience knew it was going to happen. And that suspense building up was perfect. It flowed nicely and realistically.
As for blocks of text I will have to say there was none. Although, I did notice one or two paragraphs when it felt you were more passionate then the rest of the story, almost like you were lecturing the reader like one does to a child; of course, not to this degree, but you understand, I hope:
“It was not illegal for a man to love another man in Misthalin, but it was not respected either. There was an unspoken censorship of the three-letter-word, and if they must be uttered, it would have to be done in hushed voices, or find a euphemism. Such feelings were looked down upon, and for the public to have such views, it required the failure of imagination and empathy. Nobody knew what it meant to be Edward at the time, but then nobody knew what it meant to be anyone else. Ultimately, everyone is only truly knowable to themselves. So why judge others with our own standards, when we understand so little about what it means to be a completely different person? It is too pretentious.”
Was it intentional for you make Reldo show grief for Edward and how he died with no regrets. If you are then Reldo seems to be the only character excellent and forgiving himself, in my mind.

08-Jan-2011 06:36:08

Dark Enmity

Dark Enmity

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As for Ronny and Edward’s relationship I was a little skeptical about Edward’s feelings for Ronny about what he did. If I remember correctly, Ronny is 13, and that means has very high expectations. Ronny has no excuses, but it is unfair for Edward to react so violently to him, even if he ruined his life. I think it was horrible what Edward went through, though.
As for the food for thought I like a little supplementary reading. I find this quote and your narration after ironic.

“’If there were such feelings at all, it was a phase, because his own experience told him this was so, and therefore this must be the case for everyone else too who felt the same, especially Edward because he was his son.’
-Why do we judge others with our own standards?*
I think the “especially” should apply to Ronny because Edward believes Ronny is a younger him, when really he can’t possibly know who another person is. As it is out of context, don't literally change it. Just wanted to point out the fact.
I hope you respond to this. Feel free to ask more questions, I always enjoy chatting. Bye! :)

08-Jan-2011 06:36:24 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2011 07:51:14 by Dark Enmity

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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Thanks Nguy for the bookmark :)
Hey, Kyle. No worries there, I remember you :P I’m glad it sparked the debatable ghost in you, because I’m not sure that many stories on here can, hehe!
The introduction of this work cited the culprit who uttered those words, but whether this work would have been produced were it not for that comment…I’m not so sure. I wrote this before I heard such a comment, and found it fitting as an ad, just like in The Priceless when the Wilderness update and all had nothing really to do with why the story was written in the first place. As for the second reason…I wouldn’t exactly say a better version. A better story, perhaps. I did*’t have it in mind that I should copy what I’d done in the Priceless and improve on it when I wrote this.
It is also in my view that the epilogue was weak in comparison. But I would disagree anything new being learned perhaps. As an epilogue, it’s a summary of events, emotions, and what happened to the characters we’ve met before. We learned that the previous chapters were fiction and entirely made up by the Older Ronny, who is guilt ridden and wanted appeal to the reader of his crimes. We weren’t revealed that it is possible to have some extremely inaccurate description of characters and events that occurred before until this point.
I actually don’t find it shocking that your least favourite character could be Edward. Intrigued, perhaps, but not shocked. Would love to hear your reasoning/evidence that prompted this though. And I’d love to see why you’d consider him the most evil character in this story.
Glad to hear Chapter one is not boring. Some find it too much for them, as they prefer slap bang entry and you’re gripped. Not in this case for me because I wanted (and the Older Ronny wanted too) to first establish a connection between the reader’s mind and the younger Ronny’s, so you can put yourselves in his shoes and care about what happens next.

08-Jan-2011 18:50:25

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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You’re the third person to have nominated Tyler to be your favourite. He was indeed lovable, innocent, but overall had the least to lose. He was born with a low expectation in life and was not expected as much. Whereas Edward had everything at one point and lost it all. Tyler was not the one being forced to live on a false hope for five years. And he still hasn’t forgiven Ronny, really :P .
At what point did you know the telling was going to happen?
Yeah, I agree with the lecturing thing, but due to space constraint and the message had to be conveyed, it got squashed into a paragraph. In that example, I started with some background information and mirror how these are treated by the Jagex company as a whole. And this probably forms my argument against the quote in the ad.
It was intention for me to make Reldo burst into tears out of concern for Edward, ask him questions, whereas Ronny had none. As for dying with no regrets…nobody knew for certain. Everybody has regrets, and perhaps Ronny feels Reldo has none, or Reldo was on much better terms with Edward than himself when he died.
One of my readers once said, they are all fools, in their own way.
By any chance, are you a younger brother? :P
What Ronny did to Edward, Edward did not deserve. Ronny justified the events led up to his crime being that of having a bad day, Reldo giving him assignments, being neglected by mother and scolded by father. Ronny didn't really bother describing what would be troubling Edward at those points, of being with an impossible love, having to meet secretly, had to put on a show with a woman he didn't love, a father who expected way too much etc. Though many were at fault here, it was easy to point your finger at one person, the catalyst, Ronny, and Ronny having failed to see past his own misery to consider the lives of others.

08-Jan-2011 18:50:46 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2011 02:52:36 by Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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For the ‘especially’ point, you’re right to an extent. Why did Edward think that Ronny wouldn’t tell on him, given the chance? If that is the case, shall we therefore say that to a murderer, that what you did was fine because in your standards, what you do is justified by your own reasoning? What about the lives he’d ruined? Edward hadn’t ‘ruined’ many lives, so to speak. He hadn’t even ‘ruined’ Ronny’s life, and spent much of childhood looking out for him, with courtesy and family love. Ronny however, had quite a bit of responsibility, if you consider that in one reckless moment, he’d ruined the lives of everyone in this story.
And I love these discussions. Please keep them coming. And if a reader wants to discuss, I’ll always respond. I don’t like wasting their time lol. And discussing with readers comes with writing these kind of stories anyway! It's part of the job.

08-Jan-2011 18:51:00 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2011 18:51:56 by Englishkid62

Dark Enmity

Dark Enmity

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Back again.
Although you did*’t copy The Priceless, the Edward-Tyler relationship is starting to feel like your trademark. I know you only have two stories on the forum with this element but it’s a very strong one that you’ve implemented in both, which is really the only evidence I have for my theory.
With the Epilogue, I just did*’t feel as much resolution as I would’ve wanted. Or maybe it just wasn’t written as nicely I don’t know, but as it is I enjoyed the chapter preceding more and I don’t know if you want your Epilogue to be stronger.

As for caring for Ronny, I don’t really know. I know my mother is sick of murderers complaining, “Poor me, poor me,” on television and I agree with her. It’s hard for me to care for someone that is bitter, and this thought was augmented when Edward and Tyler’s relationship was confirmed, knowing what prejudice there could be. Like your other reader said, they are all fools.
I disagree with Tyler losing the least. He had Edward to lose. I think it is interesting how the reactions we saw from Edward and Tyler where so drastically different. Although Tyler wasn’t trapped on a false idea like Edward he shows little bitterness about his coming doom. This is probably one reason why I think Edward is more corrupt; he believed everyone around him was destructive and vile after that moment, yet Tyler seems to only blame Ronny, and not even Roald. My two cents here.
I knew the telling was going to happen the moment the relationship between Tyler and Edward was confirmed, I just did*’t know if Ronny was going to blackmail Edward or just blurt it out. It seemed like a pretty common thing a younger brother would down, especially if he resented the eldest.
Are you saying Jagex judges us on their standards?

09-Jan-2011 01:40:56

Dark Enmity

Dark Enmity

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The one thing I noticed is the difference of everyone compared to Tyler and Reldo. They where one of the only ones who seemed to handle well under chaos and did*’t blame others (as much) or themselves. I do think Reldo died with no regrets, for if he did*’t he would be as foolish as everyone else in this story.
I am an older brother, actually. Are you a younger brother?
I don’t think Ronny was the most to blame, because, like you stated, he had no idea at the time what he did. If you give a children a gun, and shoots someone, do you blame the child, or the person who gave or left the gun. This case is slightly different, because a child does not know the cruelty and damage of the death of a person yet, Ronny did*’t exactly have a full notion of what would happen when he uttered Edward’s secret. In my mind Roald was the most to blame, because he was an adult who had complete control of the situation and choose a rather horrid conclusion.

09-Jan-2011 01:41:05

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