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Nildi of Keldagrim
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It's true, grammar doesn't *need* to be sacrificed for readability. However, I did not see *anyone* here claiming that we *must* sacrifice grammar to make things readable. Like I'd really go around saying: "Join me, grammar must die for the greater good!"
Thank you for calling me illusioned and misinformed.
While it is true I have seen authors "wriggle" when correcting their grammar and make excuses not to correct it based on "readability" or even "effect," that does not mean that crying "readability" is always an excuse.
(Did you see how I totally avoided a contraction there to place emphasis on the "not"?)
Dream said it all. I'd just like to add this:
I have yet to find a book that I am convinced is 100% grammatically perfect. But do those things actually affect the quality of stories?
No.
Look at it this way, the arguments we've had over commas before coordinating conjunctions and semicolons.
Does the fact that Americans have different rules for commas make any real, true difference to the quality of their writing?
No.
Does the fact that Americans have different rules about semicolons make any real, true difference to the quality of their writing?
No.
But the point is, as Dream said, does a single missing comma really matter so much that you would deny a good piece of writing over it?
~ El Pook
¡Rival Grammar Master ~ Vote for Pook!
Thank you for calling me illusioned and misinformed.
While it is true I have seen authors "wriggle" when correcting their grammar and make excuses not to correct it based on "readability" or even "effect," that does not mean that crying "readability" is always an excuse.
(Did you see how I totally avoided a contraction there to place emphasis on the "not"?)
Dream said it all. I'd just like to add this:
I have yet to find a book that I am convinced is 100% grammatically perfect. But do those things actually affect the quality of stories?
No.
Look at it this way, the arguments we've had over commas before coordinating conjunctions and semicolons.
Does the fact that Americans have different rules for commas make any real, true difference to the quality of their writing?
No.
Does the fact that Americans have different rules about semicolons make any real, true difference to the quality of their writing?
No.
But the point is, as Dream said, does a single missing comma really matter so much that you would deny a good piece of writing over it?
~ El Pook
¡Rival Grammar Master ~ Vote for Pook!
07-Sep-2007 15:08:59 - Last edited on 07-Sep-2007 15:38:35 by Maia Smith
Why's everyone apologising on this perfectly good debate real estate? As far as I'm concerned, the more people that come here and use it as a place of discussion, the more people may actually notice the story that's sprawled all over the first few pages here.
So keep the debate going (unless you're already finished, that is). No apologies are necessary!
By the way, I absolutely advocate misusing every literary device known to writer-kind when it's effective to do so. But I would probably caution to less seasoned authors that "less is more" with such techniques, and that it helps to know the rules before you break them.
On a semi-related issue, I recently picked up a book in a local bookstore that was totally bizarre. You could read it from both ends, meaning you could open it up, and read one story from page 1 to page xxx at the end. Then you could close the book, flip it over, and open it from the other cover (which also looked like a front) and read from *that* page 1 to the end again.
Both stories were intertwined and related in subject apparently, so the intended approach of the author was to have the reader constantly flip from one to the other. There were also loads of notes in the margins, and -- for some reason -- every 'e' in the book was printed in tan brown, not black.
I can't remember the name of it because I didn't buy it. It was heralded (needless to say) as a "complete reinvention of the novel," but to me it looked like an unnecessarily complex headache! Still, if that made it into print, there's no accounting for taste, even among oterwise-respectable publishing houses.
Dreamweaver
So keep the debate going (unless you're already finished, that is). No apologies are necessary!
By the way, I absolutely advocate misusing every literary device known to writer-kind when it's effective to do so. But I would probably caution to less seasoned authors that "less is more" with such techniques, and that it helps to know the rules before you break them.
On a semi-related issue, I recently picked up a book in a local bookstore that was totally bizarre. You could read it from both ends, meaning you could open it up, and read one story from page 1 to page xxx at the end. Then you could close the book, flip it over, and open it from the other cover (which also looked like a front) and read from *that* page 1 to the end again.
Both stories were intertwined and related in subject apparently, so the intended approach of the author was to have the reader constantly flip from one to the other. There were also loads of notes in the margins, and -- for some reason -- every 'e' in the book was printed in tan brown, not black.
I can't remember the name of it because I didn't buy it. It was heralded (needless to say) as a "complete reinvention of the novel," but to me it looked like an unnecessarily complex headache! Still, if that made it into print, there's no accounting for taste, even among oterwise-respectable publishing houses.
Dreamweaver
08-Sep-2007 00:33:33 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2007 00:34:03 by Dreamweaver
Ah Die, that made me more than smile! I was thinking it was a good idea until about halfway through, when it started looking like a preschooler writing.
Hmm...I'm all debated out on grammar. I've never been good at such things. Goodnight all
~
rbie
Hmm...I'm all debated out on grammar. I've never been good at such things. Goodnight all
~
rbie
Lorehound
through and through.
08-Sep-2007 06:25:30
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