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Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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“You have misunderstood one major thing about me. My opinion of you is mostly concerned with this discussion and how you have brought me to it. I don't like you. I doubt I ever will. It is not jealousy, nor me being petty. It is a simple fact that we are incompatible as people.”
--I did*’t actually bring you into this discussion. You turned up, remember? In fact, you even got to pick which subjects you wanted to talk about. But when you began to devote more and more of your time talking about such and such is ‘conceited’ or ‘vain’, one can start to wonder if this is an obsession, or an unreasonable grudge.

”Ensuing insults from us both aside, you have failed to recognise that originally I did not insult you. I gave you a fair opinion. Do not make out that I did nothing but provoke you with unreasonable comments, because that is not true.”
--Originally you did*’t. I never said your original post was insulting. But I remembered being astounded when I see this, and thus I believe the discussion has turned a corner.
“Finally, the quotes. No, of course, me reading them means nothing. I'm not going to argue against their opinions. What bothers me is that you have collected them and put them in prime position to be read before the story, neglecting any criticism you may have had. Had you left them where they were in the thread and I read them there, then fair enough, I accept that people enjoyed what I didn't, but you didn't do that. Therefore, it is a way of influencing new readers into a particular mindset - that the story they are about to read is "one of the best on the forums".”
--As well as appearing to be sarcastic and derisive, one could equally wonder why these words *What bothers me’, ‘neglecting any criticism you may have had’ were necessary at all.

23-Jun-2011 20:59:56

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mitch: “He mentions that he is bothered by the fact that you put the posts of praise on the first post. He is correct when he says that it puts you in a conceited light and don’t mention the criticism. When a book is published, the publisher, I believe, is the one to put the quotes from the positive reviews on the book. The author has nothing to do with it. This is different. You picked out the quotes from reviews that were positive, and it can look conceited.”
--The fact is, why should he be bothered? Of course publishers will put praises on book jackets and put down positive reviews. They want to sell the book, but please remember that the author also wants the book to sell. If the reviews were written by a real individual, putting them on the front is not a morally wrong. It’s not lying. If readers want an objective review, they may read other articles about the novel. When it is about the novel (in this case, the story and this thread), promotion is important. It’s like saying in your CV when applying for a job: Yeah, I have a degree in Music – but I got a third.
(Seriously, just say you have a degree in Music. It is not conceited if you don’t mention the criticisms by your tutors)
”A little more history on David would have been nice—how did he end up being so mean?”
--There used to be a prequel (and a sequel) to this story. But I locked all of them along with the previous version of this.
“The reader is always right. If they look at it differently than you and it is supposed to be a concrete thing, then you are wrong and you must fix it.”
--While this statement is not entirely wrong, it has several fundamental problems. What if 80% of your readers have no problem with this particular aspect, and 20% has?

23-Jun-2011 21:00:10 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 21:03:24 by Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
”English, Loki is 100% about how you take criticism. You are a poor bearer of it. When I gave criticism to your grammar, you tried saying it was for style when a lot of times it was just wrong.”
--Again, I hesitate at the word ‘wrong’. In fact, I tend to deal with what is effective and what is not effective in reviews. While there are certain writing mistakes I tend to make in the past, I do read through my own work vigorously to decide what is best for the work. This will differ from another’s perception on perfection. But in the past, I have taken criticisms from many individuals and had received them to improve my work. Those who had been here in this story’s start know this. However, a writer must decide his own path, not the reviewer.

23-Jun-2011 21:00:23

Venmi

Venmi

Posts: 14,744 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
English, the first few paragraphs about the whole format of this thread nonsense is to make you both understand each other. The first paragraph is for you to understand where Loki is getting this idea from. The second and third paragraphs, however, defend you and hopefully will get him to understand where you come from. Based on your response, you never read the second and third paragraphs or you simply ignored them.
"--There used to be a prequel (and a sequel) to this story. But I locked all of them along with the previous version of this."
Why?
"What if 80% of your readers have no problem with this particular aspect, and 20% has?"
Very good point. At that point, it is all up to the perspective of people and it is your job to tell how you wrote it specifically to those people if they ask. Arguing the point further is foolish from both parties. It is the writer's story after all.
"--Again, I hesitate at the word ‘wrong’. In fact, I tend to deal with what is effective and what is not effective in reviews. While there are certain writing mistakes I tend to make in the past, I do read through my own work vigorously to decide what is best for the work. This will differ from another’s perception on perfection. But in the past, I have taken criticisms from many individuals and had received them to improve my work. Those who had been here in this story’s start know this. However, a writer must decide his own path, not the reviewer."
You have a point, but at the same time, you need to make sure it sounds right. Do you read the stuff out loud? Sometimes the emphasis that you want don't make too much sense. I will not point out an example because you have a review of mine to look back at.
That's all I got for now.

23-Jun-2011 21:14:22

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
“English, the first few paragraphs about the whole format of this thread nonsense is to make you both understand each other. The first paragraph is for you to understand where Loki is getting this idea from. The second and third paragraphs, however, defend you and hopefully will get him to understand where you come from. Based on your response, you never read the second and third paragraphs or you simply ignored them.”
--I’m sorry if it came across this way, but I did not ignore your second or third paragraphs. I understand where Lokintr’s frustration comes from but I want to question why he felt the need to be frustrated in the first place. And I did not have anything to say to your second or third paragraph.
”Why?”
--At the time, I hated the RuneScape forums and wanted nothing more to do with the place. Perhaps because of haters, I don’t know.
”You have a point, but at the same time, you need to make sure it sounds right. Do you read the stuff out loud? Sometimes the emphasis that you want don't make too much sense. I will not point out an example because you have a review of mine to look back at.”
--I actually do read them out loud. O_o

23-Jun-2011 21:24:45

Lokintr
Dec Member 2014

Lokintr

Posts: 2,432 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Misunderstood twice and ignored once. Trying to be polite, here.
I meant that through this discussion you have brought about my current opinion of you.
I did not mean that to be sarcastic or derisive and I don't believe that it is. Also, "what bothers me" is relevant because that's the only reason I'm pursuing it, and the neglected criticism is relevant because that is my problem.
Also, you ignored the last paragraph. At least have to good grace to respond when I am making an attempt to be civil to you.

EDIT: Since we're on the subject of rhythm again:
"RuneScape provided an ethereal, fantasy world in which no one would ever tell me what to do.”

The most natural rhythm here is actually a pause after "world" - the pause there still puts emphasis on "ethereal fantasy world" but the flow is not disrupted with the unnatural pause after "ethereal". Consider also "fantasy world" as a single noun, and not fantasy as an adjective. Grammatically in that sense the comma after "ethereal" is in fact incorrect, no matter the intended rhythm.

23-Jun-2011 21:32:38 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 21:38:18 by Lokintr

Venmi

Venmi

Posts: 14,744 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"I’m sorry if it came across this way, but I did not ignore your second or third paragraphs. I understand where Lokintr’s frustration comes from but I want to question why he felt the need to be frustrated in the first place. And I did not have anything to say to your second or third paragraph."
Why did he get frustrated with it? I don't know. That's his prerogative, and the conflict about it was pointless. Apology accepted by the way.
"At the time, I hated the RuneScape forums and wanted nothing more to do with the place. Perhaps because of haters, I don’t know."
I'm interested in this prequel.
"I actually do read them out loud. O_o "
Okay then. We may have forever conflicting opinions on the stylistic choices you make then. I still feel a lot of them are wrong, but a lot of my corrections come from how I feel they should sound as well as what is grammatically correct.
"EDIT: Since we're on the subject of rhythm again:
"RuneScape provided an ethereal, fantasy world in which no one would ever tell me what to do.”

The most natural rhythm here is actually a pause after "world" - the pause there still puts emphasis on "ethereal fantasy world" but the flow is not disrupted with the unnatural pause after "ethereal". Consider also "fantasy world" as a single noun, and not fantasy as an adjective. Grammatically in that sense the comma after "ethereal" is in fact incorrect, no matter the intended rhythm."
Thank you for pointing out a correction I tried to make. You made it in a better way. :)

23-Jun-2011 21:38:44 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2011 21:40:47 by Venmi

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