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Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

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Man, that dragon sure can eat!


np, I just don't shy from near-hopeless opposition. I won't go crazy or anything, I won't interfere with your plans. Though, Sakura and a couple groups of undead, ghostly warriors summoned who are also a threat to her and other party members, would be a fun fight, but np.


Pink 4 Twink said :
On top of that, people seem to not really care for lore in general, when I feel that lore is the most interesting fact of stories and rp's. Hence why I make those 32 page lore docs in the first place. The most important feature of any story are the characters. Characters are the lifeblood of any story. A good story with bad characters will never compete with a bad story with good characters.

Another issue I feel is present about your lore, Rainbow, is your expository style. Why do most people not care about lore, myself included? Simple: exposition, exposition, exposition. Throwing random facts at the reader is not storytelling. You will never make a story by vaguely mentioning tidbits of info here and there. It is better to gradually discover hints, clues or revelations during RPing. (If you’d like more specific advice and examples, I can share more, if you ask)

As an analogy, if you intend to publish a novel, every editor and publisher will reject your novel if it begins and continues expositionally. Why? Because adults don’t like being lectured. However, expository storytelling did work back in the days of The Lord of the Rings, but we no longer live back when Tolkien was alive. Another point, exposition in bios is also understandable, as we don’t have all day to read novellas just to RP.

03-Dec-2019 03:25:44

Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

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Generally speaking, storytelling should have direction and consistency in relation to the protagonists’ viewpoints. There are scenes with Hakkon, Lexius, Lord Tingus Gern, Balta and the dragon Asmonthiid, Sudaro and his mother, etc., which have little to do with what’s currently going on.

Why should Sakura or Annie care about a history lesson between Sudaro and his mother in their ship? Why would Erik or Hadrian care that Lexius drank too much bloodwine (speaking of which, blood, like milk, curdles, so drinking blood fermented with wine would be like drinking wine with buttermilk, you’d start puking quickly)? Why should I read over thirty posts of lore that have nothing to do with most RPing? Why do I have to memorize a poem? What’s the point of a dwarf wanting to have sex with an eighty-nine year old man? Why are Lithia, this Balvorrik battlemage, and most vampires, adult children? What can I do with Erik and Sakura to actually be useful in anything? Did you make thirty-pages of lore then more amidst RPing because my characters are meant to correlate and counter a thousand years of history? How do I do that?

My characters cannot impact Hadrian or Lia, either, and they haven’t even met. At best, they can help them achieve some sort of influence or status in the vampiric domains, but neither Sakura nor Erik know much about that or them. Erik, being a warlord, if given a timeskip, could amass a few warbands and partake in a larger-scale war, but I don’t know if that’s what was planned. Since this RP began inside castle dungeons, I expected a breakout then surviving.

03-Dec-2019 03:25:54

Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

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I forgot to mention, but whilst I drove home earlier today, at the intersection of Highways 97 and 16, a guy walked across the road when he should not have, and the vehicle two cars ahead of mine totalled him. He ended up perhaps twenty feet down the road from the crosswalk, I passed him sometime later and then realized what had happened (when cars first honked and turned I didn't know what was going on). I think his skull was cracked open. I saw a few thick leaks of blood puddling on the road. The blood did not squirt or gush, it steadily and thickly leaked like a faucet in three different areas, so I think he died on impact. I hope he didn't, hope he survived and went to hospital. Although I lack empathy, I still wish the best for people. This is the fourth person I've seen drop dead in my life, I don't want to see it happen any more.

03-Dec-2019 07:23:22

NotFishing

NotFishing

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While it is tragic that something like that happened, there was no need to go into such vivid detail. You could have said: "I saw a man who got hit by a car today," or something like that.

Azi Demonica said :

Characters are the lifeblood of any story. A good story with bad characters will never compete with a bad story with good characters.


This is subjective. Both of these outcomes are equally bad in my opinion. There's nothing wrong with focusing on story over characters, or characters over story; the most important thing is that the one you choose to neglect is still somewhat passable, while the one you focus on is good enough to distract from the rest of the flaws.

If you neglect plot or worldbuilding in favour of characters, then it doesn't matter how well-written the characters are; if the world or their quest feels empty, then what's the point?

Azi Demonica said :

Another issue I feel is present about your lore, Rainbow, is your expository style. Why do most people not care about lore, myself included? Simple: exposition, exposition, exposition. Throwing random facts at the reader is not storytelling. You will never make a story by vaguely mentioning tidbits of info here and there. It is better to gradually discover hints, clues or revelations during RPing. (If you’d like more specific advice and examples, I can share more, if you ask)


This is also subjective. 32 pages of lore might be a bit overboard for an RP, but exposition and outside-information aren't necessarily a bad thing. Exposition can be made to look organic. And in some cases, having information about the world be available it comes up in the RP is important, because you might need to take some of that in mind when creating your characters.

----

Rainbow - I think the problem here is less that people are disinterested, and more that they just don't have time. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

03-Dec-2019 08:37:14 - Last edited on 03-Dec-2019 08:50:55 by NotFishing

Pink 4 Twink
Aug Member 2023

Pink 4 Twink

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You both have very good points though, I have no idea why, but the vampires all seem to have the same personality-- that of sadistic adult children. That is the result of me not being able to separate my own personality from that of my character yet. Not the sadistic part, but the childishness. For whatever reason it gets applied to every character. I don't know if any of you agree, but it seems very unrealistic for three different people in the same room to have the same personality.

Brimblemir and Lithia for example. They both have the same childishness in them. They are twins, so it made sense for me to give them that same trait, but when I realized I had at least 5 different vampire characters at least with the same personality I was like "fuck me!"

Incompetence, as well. For all-powerful immortal beings, the vampires are so incompetent that it makes me wonder just why aren't they using their smarts or their senses. The ambush with Erik and Zurga for example was almost cartoonish levels of silly. Has this RP become a damn vampire satire?

However, there is one thing I need to bring up: Those scenes with Balta, Lexius, Tingus, Sudaro and his mother, Asmonthiid, etc. Those introductions needed to be hashed out relatively early. Balta is the main villain for example. Sudaro and House Draconis play a huge part of the story. Lexius as well. Tingus? Not so much, but I thought it nice to add him- He'll come into play later.

I definitely need examples of how to make my exposition blend with the story, and how to throw in hints, clues, etc. where needed. Just your friendly neighborhood gay boy! =)

03-Dec-2019 21:06:43

Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

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NotFishing,

You’re right, I probably shouldn’t have had gone into such details. It’s just that what happened burned into my mind and I couldn’t get it out.

Indeed, it is subjective, however, there are successful novels with bad stories, but there are not successful novels with bad characters.

Ah, see, there are many successful novels without worldbuilding. Jenna Moreci’s novel The Saviour’s Champion has virtually zero worldbuilding and lore, yet sold excellently and is adored by many.

By 32 pages of lore, I meant 32 posts, sorry about that. But yes, this is also subjective. It’s just that it seems worldbuilding and lore are less and less important nowadays. So, I figured I would speak of it, just in case.

My main issue with lots of lore is my inability to memorize things. I like how Rainbow puts so much effort into his lore and RPs, but I can’t understand content that is not my own. I think this has to do with my autism-like symptoms.



Rainbow,
Yeah, the vampires were quite awkward and single-minded, and as you said, many acted the same way. This made them feel more like caricatures than villains. Nevertheless, you’re getting experience, so that’s good.

“but when I realized I had at least 5 different vampire characters at least with the same personality I was like "fuck me!"” XD this made me chuckle. But yes, most authors have these moments, it’s how we learn.

“The ambush with Erik and Zurga for example was almost cartoonish levels of silly. Has this RP become a damn vampire satire?” exactly! 0.o I will admit there were times I thought you were using self-satire, but I didn’t make too big a deal of it.

04-Dec-2019 06:38:07 - Last edited on 04-Dec-2019 06:41:05 by Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

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Rainbow, about exposition, foreshadowing, storytelling
OK, I think this is where I can be more helpful. In simplest terms, long term foreshadowing can be based on recurring themes based off of something. For example, some vampires were associated with certain images, and if described symbols reoccur, they suggest foreshadowing.

For example...have you ever played the Dead Space games? Their core foreshadowing was the phrase ‘make us whole’ which expands into religious and apocalyptic themes as the game progresses.

In BioShock Infinite, we gradually uncover the game’s story via Booker’s occasional dreams/flashbacks, gradually meeting characters and alternative realities, and progressing towards the antagonist.

The Dark Souls trilogy seems to tell a bigger story via clues left behind in certain areas and characters, each with their own backstories, yet always remaining within the curse that affects the entire world. Occasional dialogue of certain characters also offers clues.

What all these games have in common is lack of exposition. They don’t explain everything to you right off the bat, you instead must journey through the worlds and uncover bits of info here and there.

I hope these analogies help, as I wasn't able to figure out anything easier. Nevertheless, if you have any specific questions, I will at least try to help.

04-Dec-2019 06:38:44

Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

Posts: 5,601 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rainbow, about exposition, foreshadowing, storytelling
OK, I think this is where I can be more helpful. In simplest terms, long term foreshadowing can be based on recurring themes based off of something. For example, some vampires were associated with certain images, and if described symbols reoccur, they suggest foreshadowing.

For example...have you ever played the Dead Space games? Their core foreshadowing was the phrase ‘make us whole’ which expands into religious and apocalyptic themes as the game progresses.

In BioShock Infinite, we gradually uncover the game’s story via Booker’s occasional dreams/flashbacks, gradually meeting characters and alternative realities, and progressing towards the antagonist.

The Dark Souls trilogy seems to tell a bigger story via clues left behind in certain areas and characters, each with their own backstories, yet always remaining within the curse that affects the entire world. Occasional dialogue of certain characters also offers clues.

What all these games have in common is lack of exposition. They don’t explain everything to you right off the bat, you instead must journey through the worlds and uncover bits of info here and there.

I hope these analogies help, as I wasn't able to figure out anything easier. Nevertheless, if you have any specific questions, I will at least try to help.

04-Dec-2019 06:38:49

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