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NotFishing

NotFishing

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Azi Demonica said :

Historically, plate armour was cheaper than mail. Two days was all that’s needed to create a breastplate, but several months for a single mail shirt. Of course, full plate armour was extremely expensive, about the equivalent of several hundred thousand dollars in today’s currency.


This is an oversimplification.

Chainmail took longer to make, but overall it was cheaper because you could simply use metal scraps or leftover materials to forge the links, while with platemail you need high quality materials.

It's also easier to create chainmail, and not nearly as precise. Plate armor has to be custom fitted to the wearer - that's less of an issue with mail.

Azi Demonica said :
Inferi, p2791
You don't need to be a rogue to steal, waylay, ransack, or murder victims, after all.


A rogue has a completely different approach to those methods, and some would argue it is more entertaining.
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

10-Jun-2018 03:04:05 - Last edited on 10-Jun-2018 03:04:34 by NotFishing

Westenev

Westenev

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Azi Demonica said :
George,
Historic warrior monks, such as sohei and Knights Templar, fought with weapons and armour. They also could fight without weapons. I can’t imagine why there should be a class that specialises in fists. Historic martial arts was basically MMA with weapons and armour, and lots of killing and agony.


To be fair, I've been in enough self-defence courses to know that a weapon you don't know how to use is usually worse than having no weapon at all, and being unarmed doesn't necessarily make one helpless.

While Monks specialise in unarmed combat, they can use weapons like Daggers, Staves or Short swords in DnD. They just choose not to, because it's part of their religion or beliefs against starting violence. They have no problems ending it though.



Azi Demonica said :
I don’t like being limited. I need vastness, abundance, and diversity. But, it’s also to be supportive, just in case someone would like to do something differently.


Try thinking of it this way: Each class can be considered a trade. In a trade, you get an apprenticeship, learn the skills, and you do the job. Very similar to a knight so far, from what I understand. In the real world, how many plumbers do you expect are taught to install light fittings or heat pumps? Very few, because we all specialise into a comfortable niche so we don't screw up, cross two wires we shouldn't, die and make the boss unhappy.

I'm not saying you should limit yourself or your classes, but I definitely think you should rethink allowing every class to be a jack-of-all-stats. Groups are seldom independent, and it's important to create exploitable strengths and weaknesses in their training.
Noth
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happ
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10-Jun-2018 03:16:38 - Last edited on 10-Jun-2018 03:18:44 by Westenev

Azi Demonica

Azi Demonica

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NotFishing,
Mail was more expensive than plate, regardless if mail was cheaper to produce, however, I have speculated that smaller parts of mail, such as mittens, aventail, or coif, may have been easier things to acquire. Hammering tiny rods of iron, or making mail from iron wire, are definitely cheaper and easier to do, but mail wasn’t cheap, and Europe had lots of iron. Note that chainmail and platemail are not historically accurate terms; they appear within a couple hundred years ago. Mail was also tailored to match the wearer’s body, too.

I’m rather ignorant of conventional fantasy, so I don’t know what rogues do. I’m guessing it’s Assassin’s Creed or Dishonoured or Thief stuff. Speaking of which, I don’t think we’ve had an RP about something like that, though it’ll be up to someone else to work it out.



West,
That can happen, yes. Not knowing how to use something can indeed just put you in a worse situation.

I see, I think. There were many monk-like pilgrims going to the Middle East prior to the First Crusade, and many of them were basically slashing practise for Muslim raiders.

Good analogy to modern trades in relation to RP classes, makes sense for sure. Medieval people were just much more adaptable than their modern descendants, and that’s something I automatically and thoughtlessly incorporate in my RPs. Crusaders converted boats into siege towers, and Vikings made siege engines when they had to. Knights were also hunters, politicians, and landowners. Huscarls eventually fought on horseback like knights. English longbowmen sometimes equipped themselves in heavy armour, or even converted into actual men-at-arms, leaving their longbows behind. Indeed, all these phases took time, a class that expands and learns, so to speak.

10-Jun-2018 03:45:00

Inferi

Inferi

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Azi Demonica said :
Uniqueness isn’t possible


I just want to note that this turns me off 100%.

To elaborate: the thought that everyone is some plate-clad soldier with stock equipment is an incredibly unfun thought. It's also another personal preference, but I like to be different, usually more than I need to, from other characters and the world in general. Without it feeling unique, it just makes it feel like everything is existing, and not much more than that.
Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

10-Jun-2018 03:59:34 - Last edited on 10-Jun-2018 04:05:59 by Inferi

Westenev

Westenev

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Well, to be fair, the concept itself is simple, Annie. We're just debating the types of classes that will be employed.


Inferi said :
Azi Demonica said :
Uniqueness isn’t possible


I just want to note that this turns me off 100%.

To elaborate: the thought that everyone is some plate-clad soldier with stock equipment is an incredibly unfun thought. It's also another personal preference, but I like to be different, usually more than I need to, from other characters and the world in general. Without it feeling unique, it just makes it feel like everything is existing, and not much more than that.


I can hear Lasky weeping from here.

I mean, I know I CAN have interests in the types of stories I think Azi wants to do, but I don't think I can create a persona for it. Stories without specialisations rely heavily on character relationships, and frankly, most of the time we work solo even within a group setting.

Azi Demonica said :
Good analogy to modern trades in relation to RP classes, makes sense for sure. Medieval people were just much more adaptable than their modern descendants, and that’s something I automatically and thoughtlessly incorporate in my RPs. Crusaders converted boats into siege towers, and Vikings made siege engines when they had to. Knights were also hunters, politicians, and landowners. Huscarls eventually fought on horseback like knights. English longbowmen sometimes equipped themselves in heavy armour, or even converted into actual men-at-arms, leaving their longbows behind. Indeed, all these phases took time, a class that expands and learns, so to speak.


Focus on the basic training, not what they go on to do afterwards, what they might inovate or how they adapt into other roles. Start from the ground up, else you'll go crazy.
Noth
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10-Jun-2018 04:12:27 - Last edited on 10-Jun-2018 04:21:24 by Westenev

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