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Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The skill and chill was interesting, it's been a while since I went to one. :)



Vera said :
Yusou
, in response to your main concern--my first game of Pest Control during the event, I went into the Veteran boat, and wasn't awarded any Void Knight points because I didn't contribute enough lol. I was distracted (had a lot of private messaging going on then), and all the pests I did try attacking were all far away, so they died before I really had a chance to deal damage. Knowing this, I was still genuinely surprised that I wasn't able to get away with it, and that was reassuring.

There's also an afk Castle Wars fc on world 24, the official cwars world. To be honest, I don't know how I feel about that, since most games are rigged, but at the same time they allow these games to actually happen. Without this afk fc, Castle Wars games otherwise never would have taken off the ground, and a result of Runescape's natural attrition, I can't really complain about them.


Thanks for your response!

Pest control is of least concern, from my perspective - it runs quite well, has decent rewards, is pretty much solo-efforts (to a large extent, especially in masses), and doesn't really suffer too much when a few people afk it (the rewards are slow enough, and afking brings no major advantage over playing, other than it's inherrant effort: payoff; what's more, if everyone does so, they lose), the only downside is that it can detract from Conquest.


Castlewars is another matter, however.. while I don't like it myself.. I know that for many who did, it was the huge numbers of afkers comming into the labled worlds (in order to get trim), and preventing enjoyment in playing, that put off those who played (and many of whom would still play) for fun, thus starting a cycle of people who actually play leaving or giving up and joining the afkers, thus making the player:afker ratio more skewed, and further preventing fun..

18-Jan-2016 22:41:39 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2016 00:00:04 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
(This has happened with many minigames); it's a self exacerbating process.

With Castlewars also being a combat minigame, this meant that it's population was in an unhealthy (even if populated) position, once the EoC came out (not making a comment on whether it was positive or negative, so please don't read any into it), and folks learning a new system would find it impossible to do so in an atmosphere completely against participation.. thus adding another hurdle to overcome - so boosting the numbers giving up, or afking instead, leading to practically no one playing.

These things, along with a strong emphasis on PvM, and Exp, with no thought given to minigames (I should clarify: where any action was taken, it was either done without addressing any of the problems, or was done to give people a way round participating, rather than a reason to participate, so further added to the problems), meant that minigames were soon struggling. Lack of rewards (for most were made obsolete, either by the EoC, or similarly timmed updates), compounded this.

With Gop, it had an enormous (not joking when I say over 100 bots on each world, at one point - there were accurate weekly reporting sweeps that back this up) bot problem, which wasn't dealt with for Years, and meant no one new was getting to experience playing the game, nor even meeting up with other players, so weren't getting to like the game (though could dislike it, because bots prevented play), and there was no skill-bridge, for new players to learn from experienced ones (other than via a fc, which why would anyone even look for, if they can farm off the bots on any world?).

18-Jan-2016 23:03:51 - Last edited on 18-Jan-2016 23:04:18 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Furthermore, it was one of the unlucky games to suffer from a toxic reward allocation system, that rewards boosting>afking>playing. With the only way for skilled players, or those who like playing, to maximise their rewards, being to target newcommers (a trap which the labled-world communities fell into, and still seem to have ingrained, which isn't helping things... fortunately they weren't the only communities.. but most others got fed up with the bot problems, then the game crashes and laggs which went on for over a Year after the bots were finally dealt with [which didn't come directly after another problem had ended, for the rest of the game, and don't impact enjoyment of other parts so much, especially when they give rewards even if your fun is disrupted], these people ended up using their own-built versions of Gop, so are unfortunately no longer able to add positive input).

So Gop faced afk and boosting problems, what were essentially bullying problems (subliminally encouraged, or even imposed, by the reward allocation system), then added to that was the growing bot problem (which wasn't effected by bot nukes.. they continued back-to-back before and after the bot prevention updates, with no break, unlike most bots), and the finishing blow was the removal of the used labled server, a few Months before RS3 (when Gop bots were finally dealt with), so no chance for players to congragate, and form a viable community.


Regular players slowly died off, or moved away (those that had persisted through the problems - for the last 6 Months, trying to get a game without bots could take hours, or force you onto alt lang servers, and was difficult for 2 Years before that; 3+, on the F2P world), and any left got incresingly skilled compared to any newcommer, and had mostly lost touch with interacting with them positively (if indeed some of them ever did).

18-Jan-2016 23:21:10 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2016 00:08:28 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Then the last viable (ha, not rlly viable) rewards were given to TH.. altar tablets; and thalers, the robes.. so now people don't even have to afk in Gop in order to obtain the rewards from it.. they can just afk in any minigame (a problem pointed out, with alternative options given, over a Year before the Spotlight system came out, on the thread that the suggestion came from, and was continued to be voiced, constructively, all through the development). It doesn't allow people who like a particular minigame to gain trim through playing it, because it causes the majority of new people to wait till spotlight to play, and then end up being unable to actually play it, due to afkers (ty again, allocation system + afkable thalers)

- a problem which active groups struggle to make sure there are alternatives for.. you can't play anyway, as that will get you labled disruptive.. you can't make sure everyone new gets the opportunity to try playing, and you can't change pre-solidified ideas of people comming with the intention to afk, nomatter what (which is a result of the reward allocation system, and the reputation both it, and the general JAGEX-led attitude of considering minigames as joke-afk content an attitude they don't seem to realise they project, simply by focussing on everything else, and only updating minigames to make them more avoidable ). They can only do their best to help those they can.. who in the majority of cases turn out to like the game, and would do it more, if given opportunity and incentive.



The grouping system diverts people away from help groups, and with no way of explaining that you're a help group before people join it, it makes people even more unwilling to attempt playing, rather than afking, and ends up being a non-viable option for playing, or helping, groups (on top of it being yet another chat to keep up with, and provide a prompt service in, with it being glitched and non-appearing too)

18-Jan-2016 23:40:33 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2016 00:11:11 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I have centralised my focus, in the reply, for space sake, though can go into the perspective of some other minigames, too, if wished..


Sorry if it seems overly morose, or even complainy, as that's not intended.

There have been a trio of well-orientated updates, recently (last 2 Years):


The PC update (though, arguably, it wasn't in the top 10 in direst need of fixes, or indeed updates), which was mostly graphics, but added armour patches as a bonus.


The BA update, which seems fo have worked faily well. While the xp reward was somewhat nerfed (which was probably needed), and player numbers aren't really any higher, long term, than before.. the update added some really nice niche rewards (unfortunately not many), along with some more lore, and it generally improved the enjoyability of play (this was counteracted by the xp rate nerf, as it has happened in the overall context of fun and minigames being seen as a second-class way to play, but has likely left BA in a good position for if that attitude is ever changed - it didn't even lose it's best rewards to thalers!).

There was a problem which cropped up post-release, and was eventually dealt with, which had been expected, and pointed out by regular BA players, fairly early on, but they weren't originally listened to. Overall a good update, though again, it wasn't high on the list of minigames in need of fixing or updates.

FoG, which approached research in a much better way than other minigame updates, with a good selection of ideas taken from both competitive players, and those who help newcommers, along with those they help; explaining what was broken, what would fix it, and what might encourage them to play. However, it was intended to be a small, one-man one-week project, and didn't even get that, in the end, as the Mod was transfered in mid-working (or so we hear).. this lead to only the quickest bits, which they'd completed already, being implimented, leaving out the most important things.

18-Jan-2016 23:42:28 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2016 01:07:53 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The problem we face, is that often the updates, when they do come, are mistargeted (sometimes knowingly so, unless they genuinely think a lot of feedback is nonsense, till it's proved correct..), and usually too little, far too late (I can't think of any other part of the game that has so many essential-to-the-content-even-working updates going so long unfixed, while other areas get regular fixes for shorter-duration problems, and even get bonus additions, which come after most things are fixed).

There is also the dread of another update which might be negative, and also seems to reset the timer for when the next minigame update is due (which seems to bear no relation to how direly it's needed, either in general, or compared to other content), and may either make problems worse (which they are getting, slowly, in the meantime)..

I'm hoping the FoG update won't prevent them implimenting and EoC-compatible balancing system (after all, they've had it read-made, and just waiting to be added, since WE2.. and supposedly the reason they didn't do it before they made it for WE2 was entirely due to the time it'd take to make such a system.. which ceased to apply once they'd made it.. (at the moment, it's extremely hard to beat anyone more than a few levels, or a single gear-tier, above from you, which destroys the whole point of FoG, which was that anyone could fight, have fun with, and learn PvP tactics, from anyone else ).

19-Jan-2016 00:55:38 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2016 01:12:12 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
With the Castlewars, PC, and BA updates, it seems to have been numbers using them at the time, that was used as a prompt to prioritise for an update.. which should really have been an indicator that the content was relatively fine, in comparison to other minigames..

With the grouping system, thalers, and Heist (toxic reward allocation system, and the Highscores are linked to boosting, rather than playing - which means actual players don't bother much, once they see boosters will dominate, and just boost again, if they ever loss top spots) updates, it seems to have been pandering to the majority opinion of wanting to afk content, rather than those wishing to play it, or concentrating on making it so people would want to play it

- this is, after all, meant to be active content, to be played actively (and advertised as such.. which just leads to players seeking this ending up being trolled by the system), there is plenty of afk content, targeted and advertised as afk content, for those who wish to afk (what's more, it's either impossible to use it actively, or doing so gains no advantage - what's more, doing so isn't inherrantly disruptive to those using it in the form the niche is advertised for, doesn't cause a self-amplifying cycle of prevention of intended use, and doesn't allow more reward than playing the content in the content-niche-lable's way) -

The problem is, this just excludes a section of the playerbase from having fun in game, and thus restricts the range of people who may find RS attractive. Minigamers (regular-casual, and competitive) aren't asking for all of RuneScape to be made in our playform.. just that there should be a balance of content, and the niche labled as fun for us, should be possible to be fun for us.
(and not just at one-off events, but as default, as it's described)


Thank you, once again, if you've managed to wade through all that. :p

19-Jan-2016 01:25:02 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2016 13:33:15 by Yusou Bhoroi

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