RuneScape Forum Archive | Bringing Xenia Back

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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I Kinda Fail said :
I genuinely think Jagex just wants to kill them because they don't like the characters. I swear I remember a JMod saying that they'd been waiting to kill Xenia when Heart of Stone came out...

I saw Mod Raven saying that, with the addition of "... but I actually started liking her once we did Nomad's Elegy with her".

I mean, if they wanted to kill her off, they could've just done Heart of Stone and left her dead, gone, bye bye. But no, she got an epilogue. They actually gave her the courtesy of bringing her character arc to a graceful end.

I Kinda Fail said :
And the same thing with Linza. There was talk, and I think even artwork done, of the new Barrows sister? I swear I saw artwork of her holding a book or something.

Yep:

From what I've heard, she was announced at RuneFest, but players voiced doubt about a character being shoehorned into the lore as if she was there all along (TV Tropes: "Remember the New Guy" ), so they decided to scrap that and go with wightifying a pre-existing character instead.

As much as I do actually love Linza as the Barrows Sister, I'm still intrigued as to what was originally planned there.

I Kinda Fail said :
And then they decided to give the title to Linza, instead...

Heard recently (I think it was in one of the lore podcasts they did, about Armadyl?) that Mod Raven really wanted Linza to be in Rite of Passage so he could throw her off one of the floating islands. (Note that Xenia was originally meant to be in Rite of Passage instead...!)

And I mean... she was kind of a limited character at first, in the same vein as The Raptor. Not really sold to us with much of a personality, just "she's a really good smith ". As much as female smiths appeal to me personally, there really wasn't much to go on there. But god damn, I love what Kindre

Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

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15-Feb-2017 19:03:53 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2017 19:10:02 by Questcaping

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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Here follows a bit of an essay on why I love Linza so goddamn much.

Regarding her theft from the Dragonkin: you get a lot of stories about people unleashing evil/destructive forces from a hunt for some kind of rare mineral. The classic fantasy trope of dwarves digging too deep, and suchlike. But they're often driven by greed for material wealth rather than a hunger for dangerous knowledge, or even just cat-killing curiosity. Though I suppose there's some sort of want for prestige, as well: to be the first and only person to smith dragon metal! Reminds me of the early days of Runescape, with only one legendary player able to smith rune. I wonder if Linza's story was inspired by Bluerose? (And I wonder how that legendary status will stand up lore-wise with the Mining/Smithing Rework...)

The thing with her is that she was something of an ordinary person, uniquely skilled but still not satisfied with her knowledge, who went way too far with something she knew was wrong and ended up utterly out of her depth. Someone who, one day, made a really bad mistake and ended up facing the full force of the Dragonkin's wrath.

Then there's the fact that she feels as if she can't turn to the World Guardian. Because even if it was a mistake, she's done something that's unmistakeably terribly wrong, and now she's wilfully endangering countless lives just by being alive. A kindly World Guardian might help her out, but they'd certainly have no obligation, and they'd be fully justified in refusing -- the "right" thing for Linza to do here is to be accountable for her mistakes and turn herself in, not try to weasel her way out of her one big mistake and endanger people all the while.

(I almost feel as if they made the wrong quest for her. Imagine Linza coming to the WG, trying to get them to save her skin, but withholding most information. Then they find out, and decide whether to leave her to her fate. But no, the Barrows Sister quest needed to be made.)

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15-Feb-2017 19:04:22

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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So she comes to Sliske. That's interesting in itself -- the circumstances that can lead to someone relatively normal resorting to something so extreme (it seems as though Sliske sought Guthan out himself, using his grief to get him and his brothers; Gregorovic did seek Sliske himself, but then he was hardly "relatively normal" in the first place, and resorted to a lot else first). The absolute magnitude of her messing up is so extreme that the only person with the power and willingness to help her (that she knew of, anyway) is the same person who took down Guthix. Yeesh.

In a sense, her revealed backstory makes her very well-suited to Sliske. She's absolutely not happy to just accept that smithing dragon might be beyond her capability. She'll get what she wants, even if it means stealing from powerful beings more ancient than the universe -- she may not have had anywhere near enough power to get away with audacious moves like that at first, but neither did Sliske until Jas gave him the means, and I think it's safe to say that Linza does have sufficient power now. Sliske gave her "the strength to fend off the Dragonkin by herself", after all -- that's absolutely nothing to be sniffed at. And of course, there's what led her to her deal with Sliske: she is determined to stay alive, no matter what it takes. For many, all this may well not make herself easy to like. But my goodness, it makes her fascinating to me.

I just feel as though her backstory (and all its connotations) were wasted somewhat. Virtually all I've written about her here is extrapolated from a couple of hundred words Sliske has to say at the end of Kindred Spirits. It's told, not shown, and we've still been shown very little of what she can do, what she's capable of... though she's still around for more to be shown. There's opportunity, too. All depends on what's done with her talk with you in Endgame: whether it's followed on from or not.

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15-Feb-2017 19:04:37

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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Anyway, like what happened with Xenia, we've got a case of "could very well have ended her story abruptly, but nope, here's some more" -- could've left her to rot in the Barrows, but having her as part of the infamously difficult trio boss in Sliske's Endgame is kind of the opposite of trying to forget about her and pretend she was never there. Then you even get to talk to her at the end of the quest, in what could just have been an epilogue for her and the Brothers, but is hopefully some kind of sequel hook -- the Barrows wights are absolutely iconic characters in this game, and god damn, it'd be wonderful if the idea of them becoming a band of fighters for good was followed up on. They've done bad things*, and they've paid their price. Now it's about time for them to do good.

* Except Akrisae. Akrisae didn't deserve any of this, dammit!

I Kinda Fail said :
I'm still not sure why Meg or the other lady were even really needed in that quest.

Simple: they're red herrings. It was billed as the Barrows Sister quest. Sliske's kidnapped four people -- three female, one male. Poor old Brother Samwell gets killed off right at the beginning. So that's the other three as candidates, left for the player to puzzle over as they get closer to the quest's conclusion.

When you play as Linza near the end (shortly before she gets painted wight), there's some interesting dialogue you can have with the other two, designed to get you wondering whether they might accept a deal from Sliske. Meg's is very... well, very Meg. As for "the other lady" -- Major Mary Rancour -- her own dialogue is fascinating. Leader of the Burthorpe Guard, and wondering whether it's even worth it when people like the World Guardian come along and claim the credit for her and her troops' hard work. Would love to see more from her.

I recommend checking out the transcript for Kindred Spirits on the wiki. Accidentally skipped all this in the quest myself, but it's fascinating.

Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

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15-Feb-2017 19:04:48

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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I Kinda Fail said :
We've already gotten Owen cursed, so he'll probably be killed off in some way that he reconciles with Saradomin and goes to his happy Saradominist afterlife, or Owen pulls a Zanik and "disappears".

I'm not sure about Owen. Is it really the best path for him to reconcile with Saradomin? After the guy sent him into danger and got his arm all ghost-gangrenous, I imagine a healthier route would be for him to reconsider such an absolute devotion to his god. Or for a midpoint, perhaps he at least comes to terms with Saradomin being a shade of grey rather than the absolute black-and-white as he presents himself.

Still, not really much of a way out for him, is there? Only so long you can fight off a constant corruption like that. Having said that, willpower is absolutely something Sir Owen has in spades. So who knows.

I Kinda Fail said :
They said they wanted to re-do the desert series to include Ozan, but now I'm wondering if they'll just make it so the giant scarab from Contact! eats him or something.

Hah. Honestly not sure about Ozan, either. Perhaps they'll do a "shoo out the clowns" -- he was absolutely good to keep the mood light for the revamped start of the quest series, but they could kill him off as things get more serious. On the other hand, I'm really not a fan of wasting characters like that, and is it really necessary to kill him off to darken the mood when he's already well on his way to that himself? He's taking the Kharid-ib seriously, unlike pretty much anything else he's done. I think he should be given a chance to show some maturity developed through that -- and if they have to kill him off, at least give him a heroic death.

(An aside: I do believe Runescape should always maintain some degree of lightheartedness at its core. It's a silly British game full of bad puns, after all. This is why I believe Sliske was a better "main villain" than Lucien -- but I digress.)

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15-Feb-2017 19:04:54

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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I Kinda Fail said :
Ariane's not really a big part of any series any more... I'm not sure how they could get rid of her.

Well, I did love her in Rune Mysteries/Memories (absolutely excellent double bill), but those are relatively self-contained. Apart from that, there's Heart of Stone... and you'd think she had a heart of stone herself, from her reaction to having just killed Xenia. There's some confusion, but there's even more justification, and she finishes it by being absolutely steadfastly certain she did the right thing. She's established as not being particularly good with emotions, but... wow. It's especially hypocritical since she begins the quest by berating Xenia for having killed someone close to them for the greater good. If she's used in future content, I'd like to see her acknowledge that, at least.

And as Kemtros said (while I was in the process of writing up all these posts, dear god I do have a habit of going on about all this don't I), she could well be used in the Elder God pillar. Already started on it. Halted Xenia's foolish plan in its tracks, at the very least. No reason for her to stop there. Dialogue has her taking a strong interest in researching Ancient Magicks. Why not go even more ancient?

I Kinda Fail said :
And I actually forgot the Raptor even existed...

As I said in an earlier comment: just make him a joke character, please.

I dunno. I have a very low tolerance for his particular character archetype, but then I had a very low tolerance for Owen's character archetype as well until The Death of Chivalry made him interesting for me. Maybe they can make The Raptor interesting in some way, too... but how do you do that without destroying his whole thing of mystery? Backstory's a no-go. Perhaps (as suggested) leading the Bandosians would be something interesting. Who knows.

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15-Feb-2017 19:05:15 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2017 19:06:09 by Questcaping

Nov

2012

Summerleaf

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Kemtros said :

Linza was originally going to appear in Rite of Passage, and I think Raven or someone else joked that she would have been pushed off of an island. Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if she was intended to die in that quest. Meg and Mary's main roles were pretty much just to give insight into how stories like Sliske's contest raised the stakes too much that no one really cares about more minor characters. Plus it gave a tie-in to Mega May.

Linza could still come back in RoP as a Wight. She has free will again. Not to mention that it was brought up by Arma during the maze.

Questcaping said :
Reminds me of the early days of Runescape, with only one legendary player able to smith rune. I wonder if Linza's story was inspired by Bluerose? (And I wonder how that legendary status will stand up lore-wise with the Mining/Smithing Rework...).

Literally me when I read that line. How are they gonna tie it into the lore with the rework, I wonder?

15-Feb-2017 22:11:57 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2017 22:15:04 by Summerleaf

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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Summerleaf said :

Linza could still come back in RoP as a Wight. She has free will again. Not to mention that it was brought up by Arma during the maze.

Having Linza as a wight in RoP would make it require Sliske's Endgame, though (unless there's another "reset point" for quests in which everything before is assumed to have been done, like with the Sixth Age quests not requiring Fifth Age ones).

And though I'd love to see more of Linza, I doubt her intended purpose in RoP was for much more than getting killed off (it was originally meant to be Xenia, after all, but then Heart of Stone got her instead), and there's no way it's going to outright require Endgame: Rite of Passage has always been meant to be something of a low/med-level quest. Armadyl, Aviansie and Abbinah 101, if you will.

(Also, just a little confused -- what do you mean by that last bit? RoP was brought up by Arma in the maze? Or Abbinah, or what?)

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16-Feb-2017 04:29:54

Nov

2012

Summerleaf

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Questcaping said :
Summerleaf said :

Linza could still come back in RoP as a Wight. She has free will again. Not to mention that it was brought up by Arma during the maze.

Having Linza as a wight in RoP would make it require Sliske's Endgame, though (unless there's another "reset point" for quests in which everything before is assumed to have been done, like with the Sixth Age quests not requiring Fifth Age ones).

And though I'd love to see more of Linza, I doubt her intended purpose in RoP was for much more than getting killed off (it was originally meant to be Xenia, after all, but then Heart of Stone got her instead), and there's no way it's going to outright require Endgame: Rite of Passage has always been meant to be something of a low/med-level quest. Armadyl, Aviansie and Abbinah 101, if you will.

I was going more off of the Sequel that Armadyl mentioned during Sliske's Endgame, if they still wanted to bring her in. Aviansie are some of the best smiths in the universe, so it makes sense to me that Linza would want to meet them, even if she is a wight.

Questcaping said :

(Also, just a little confused -- what do you mean by that last bit? RoP was brought up by Arma in the maze? Or Abbinah, or what?)

In the maze, when he talked to Seren about moving the Aviansie to Tarddiad. Not ROP, but the sequel concept. lol

16-Feb-2017 06:25:16

Darelzel

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I do think more could have been done with Xenia in the realm of the living. For example, in the Signature Heroes meeting, she teases that she's been to the Eastern Lands but can't say too much because there's much she's sworn to secrecy about. Stuff involving Xenia's past coming back, unsettled issues from years ago -- that sort of thing.

As for The Raptor, I'm not really sure what can be done with him. He plays a part in the Song from the Depths quest, but is largely basically a joke character.

Ariane's probably my favorite of the Signature Heroes. I found her more interesting than Owen and Ozan at first, until later quests gave them more depth than their initial 'stock' characterizations. She is someone who is not afraid to pursue knowledge that may benefit the rest of the world, and that can lead to all sorts of interesting scenarios and sometimes a few 'grey' areas.

26-Feb-2017 22:00:38

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Bringing Xenia Back