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Deux Faces

Deux Faces

Posts: 48 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
sir eos lee said :
One distinct possibility: We are the ultimate cosmic plaything.
The GWD bosses are arguably more powerful than we are AND each has their own set of body guards.
Yet a lone adventurer can walk in, mow down 40+ mooks to gain entry, and then go toe to toe with the 4 of them and wipe the floor with them?

Odds are, the bosses in game are pulling their punches.

They have instructions from "higher powers" that they aren't allowed to go all out against us.

The bosses are allowed to defend themselves, so it's your own fault if you get killed.

Nomad is one of the exceptions to the rule. He has no master, thus you go toe to toe with one of the most powerful mortal battle mages, twice. And you see what he can do.
You really want to tell me that Kril, zily, and Nex pale in comparison to him?

Nomad already mentions in Nomad's Elegy that we are a plaything of the gods.
He sees it. He knows it. (might be a bit of lampshade hanging)
Our entire life is being tossed around by higher powers for an ending we can't see. At least, not until one of them cracks and lets us in on the joke.

As much as I would like to believe that Nomad was just crazy and his comment about us being a "plaything" of the gods was off base, we can't ignore the fact that the dialogue was probably written with the purpose of being intriguingly revealing yet cryptic simultaneously. It's an unfortunate bit of foreshadowing in the sense that it really gives this impending feeling that we're about to find out the "joke" as you put it.

It's things like this where I wish that the piece of dialogue was meaningless, but it seems like it would not have been put in the game unless it was relevant.

01-Mar-2016 04:34:17

Deux Faces

Deux Faces

Posts: 48 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RE the above though, in a sense the lines are very blurred.

If the gods are truly just playing with us, how long can they let it go on? How long can we keep shaping the decisions of the universe and controlling the flow of events before the gods would say enough? Would it potentially even get to the point where they let it slide for too long and the impact we have made and influence we have is no longer within their control?

Just some thoughts.

01-Mar-2016 04:50:35

Inque
Nov Member 2013

Inque

Posts: 548 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There was a thread a while back where it was agreed upon that gameplay mechanics (such as combat levels and damage splats) are irrelevant compared to the story.

For example, the Bandos avatar and the Soul Wars avatars are tier 7, but there are plenty of monsters stronger than they. So, by extension, any monster with a higher max hit, constitution, or combat level are greater than tier 7. You can see how ridiculous this sounds. Also, I don't understand how a level 138 player can solo the level 3000 Araxxi.

To answer the OP's question, I think the World Guardian is tier 7. He/she has defeated the t7 Bandos avatar (although Zanik did help, she's not terribly powerful in combat and therefore didn't make much of a difference), thus making them around that range at most, since a t6 World Guardian is impossible (they'd be a full-fledged god then, albeit a fairly weak one.)
You can't read this signature. It's written in invisible inque.

02-Mar-2016 04:28:31

Jaekob Caed
Apr Member 2011

Jaekob Caed

Posts: 7,173 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I've mentioned before how I believe that the World Guardian has equal potential for physical/magical/divine power as the gods have, while being more privileged than the gods being that we will still have an afterlife, we cannot be killed by god magic (as far as we know; the elders might be able to), and in theory, we could -- as you said -- go toe-to-toe with the elders one day and demand they respect us.

This is how I could see Gielinor "ending": After gaining immense amounts of power to rival, or perhaps exceed the gods, the World Guardian, crowned by the Locator stands in the Elder Halls as the elder gods themselves attempt to devour Gielinor's anima. As they approach, the World Guardian stomps their foot and all Gielinor shakes. The elders reel back, realizing your power is greater than they expected. They continue to approach, and you drive the Siphon into the ground similar to Guthix with the Sword of Edicts, temporarily siphoning the power of the anima into yourself, creating a new set of edicts forcing the elders to leave Gielinor free from the new Revision.

I could be overestimating the power that the World Guardian can obtain, but that's just my own idea of how things will end up going. As you mentioned, we are the most important figure in Gielinorian history and in our hands rests the future of the world. A great responsibility, to be sure. ~
Jaekob Caed
: Scribe, Scholar and Prince of the Kingdom of Heaven ~
The Jagex I once loved is dead... A THREAD

06-Mar-2016 09:33:39

Shifu
Dec Member 2010

Shifu

Posts: 3,595 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think perhaps rather than considering our player to simply be better at straight up combat, we could be considered better strategists and thus explain our ability to defeat considerably stronger opponents.

Examples:
- We reactivate the QBD's sleeping spell because we simply cannot kill her
- We help to create a specific weapon to kill Bandos' avatar.
- Arraxor we lure through the caverns we want. (Though it is notable we do just beat Arraxi in straight up combat)
- We have to find and use a special weapon to kill Drakan.
- In Fot*, we can find and use a special device to protect us from the worst of the lightning.
- Even in basic combat, we specifically plan what weapons we'll be using, suitable armour, which, if any, food. In other words, we've planned for our attacks in advance, very few NPCs could claim to do so. Arguably, the GWD monsters and bosses should be prepared, so perhaps we are stronger than they are, though perhaps the Generals are planning their next assault and then we just wander in and kill them before they get a chance to fully gear up.
- Many quest bosses aren't actually geared for a battle when we "suddenly" confront them. Nomad was, and look how powerful he was (originally). He really held his own, and he was just a human, admittedly highly trained, but nothing special.

Whilst it must be noted that our character is extremely powerful in straight up combat compared to normal humans, I think more of our victories come from planning our attacks. We learn their special attacks, and how to counter, we find their weaknesses and how to exploit them.

So, I don't think we're seriously in the realms of godhood. We are powerful, and able to resist some level of godly abilities, but I'm sure any of the Gods could crush us in an instant if they so desired.
We are crucial to the story, and very pivotal, and can affect the outcomes of the world, but we cannot do so alone. We must ally ourselves before we could truly take on a God. If you only do what you can do, you will never be more than you are now.

07-Mar-2016 00:05:37 - Last edited on 07-Mar-2016 00:16:54 by Shifu

Shifu
Dec Member 2010

Shifu

Posts: 3,595 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I mean, if you consider how many of the gods we have met, which is a vast majority, if not all, yet we were unable to kill them.

For Tuska, we had to drain her energy into our champion via a powerful spear.
For Bandos, we had to help Armadyl charge up his special weapon.

If we were truly as powerful as suggested, we should've been able to one-hit Tuska using the spear, or at least absorb the power ourselves until we were powerful enough to kill Tuska with our glowing hand super-punch.

We could've just waltzed right up to Bandos and went stabby-stabby.

But yet, we couldn't. Not alone.
Therefore, our abilities, whilst considerable, are a mere pittance compared to the power the Gods wield.

Perhaps, we could channel enough power to challenge them, but in our current state, we are just pawns in the cosmic game of chess. But remember, if you use your skill wisely enough, a pawn can become any other piece on the board (baring the king), and can severely change the entire course of the game. If you only do what you can do, you will never be more than you are now.

07-Mar-2016 00:08:42 - Last edited on 07-Mar-2016 00:15:05 by Shifu

Jaekob Caed
Apr Member 2011

Jaekob Caed

Posts: 7,173 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Currently, perhaps, we aren't nearly powerful enough. However, we have virtually unlimited potential for power except that we cannot become gods. So in theory, we potentially could achieve levels of power equal to/greater than the gods, yet we are more privileged in that we have a defense against divine power that we don't will upon ourselves, and unlike the gods, we didn't have to surrender our right to an afterlife to achieve that power. ~
Jaekob Caed
: Scribe, Scholar and Prince of the Kingdom of Heaven ~
The Jagex I once loved is dead... A THREAD

07-Mar-2016 06:34:55

Shifu
Dec Member 2010

Shifu

Posts: 3,595 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Why do you think we have unlimited potential?

Maybe there's an upper limit to how much power our body can physically retain.

I find it sort of silly to think we could be more powerful than a god, yet still have the advantage of an afterlife. If this were possible, why wouldn't any of the other gods attempted to discover this method?

I think on the god power scale, we might be able to become the most powerful tier 6 (Demi-gods). Any higher, and we'd be ranked as a God - which is known we cannot be.

Personally, I don't think Jagex would ever make us that powerful. I mean, if we suddenly climbed the ladder and became more powerful than Zaros, theoretically, we should be able to kill any of the other gods with ease and absorb copiously large amounts of power. If you only do what you can do, you will never be more than you are now.

07-Mar-2016 11:36:13

SixOfOne
Apr Member 2023

SixOfOne

Posts: 83 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Let's split this into two parts: Gameplay and Lore.

Gameplay wise, we are the equivalent of a shoune* anime protagonist. As the player, we have plot armour a mile thick and instead of the power of friendship we have the ability to respawn. So, when we find a nice, scary brick wall we can bash our heads against it till it breaks ala Dark Souls. We are, outside of the Jmods the most powerful being in Gielinor as unless it's impossible to kill, we would find a way to defeat it, especially bosses as otherwise it would be dead content.

In terms of the story, while we still have the plot armour we are still fairly weak, especially when we look at the lore. Azzanadra defended himself and about 100 others from what is basically a nuclear blast that created a desert, a feat we are unlikely to be able to replicate. We could also not kill the bandos avatar without severing the connection between Bandos and the pendant. Lore wise we are probably around T7 as the world guardian (we are no longer fully human) but would almost definitely lose against most Mahjarrat.

There obviously has to be crossover between these two aspects for quest bosses but if we took lore on gameplay terms then Sir Tiffy would be able to solo a mahjarrat and Azzanadra, recently rejuvenated and imbued with the power of Zaros, would only be able to do 19k damage in two hits.

In my mind I just separate the two aspects of the game. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend to be one of those deaf-mutes

07-Mar-2016 18:22:26 - Last edited on 07-Mar-2016 18:27:21 by SixOfOne

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