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Tumeken- Child of Mah?

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Helring
Mar Member 2005

Helring

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Ok, so with the new information released in CoM it seems to open up or make more likely a crazy theory that Tumeken was a Child of Mah (Mahjarrat, Mahserrat, etc) that ascended. We learned in CoM that Mahjarrat basically are the gems they have, it stores their memories and when they die the rest leaves but the gems remain. This seems similar to the Kharid-Ib which has been theorized to be all that remains of Tumeken upon his death (a giant gem).

We know its important enough that Amascut wanted to steal it, and we also know that the Mahjarrat Temekel who was supposed to have died at Tumeken's self destruct instead survived and guarded the Kharid-Ib.

We also know that Tumeken has an animal aspect, as do all of his children and aspects. Tumeken was the Falcon, could he have taken on that aspect much as Akthanakos had shapeshifted into a camel?

The most famous mahjarrat ritual is the sacrifice, but they have another one they use to give birth. During this ritual their pour their power out to combine with another to create a new Mahjarrat. Zemouregal's father (also named Zemouregal) gave almost all the power that went into creating Zem. Could this same ritual have been used by Tumeken to create his aspects? Pouring his Elder God energy into Crondis, Scabaras, Apmeken, and Het so as to imbue these lesser creatures with divine powers? Perhaps Elidinis is also a Child of Mah and together they used the ritual to create Amascut and Icthlarin. This could explain why Amascut has such great control of shapeshifting powers when even other higher level Gods don't seem to use them.

Lastly, it would explain why Icthlarin and Amascut went to Freneskae for reinforcements, the other end of space, the farthest known planet from Gielinor. They went seeking their father's race, hoping to find tough survivors like they may have heard stories from him about. Hoping with that kindred link they could also help out the Mahjarrat and be helped in turn.
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22-Nov-2016 09:53:39

Hguoh

Hguoh

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The main issue with Tumeken being a child of Mah would be explaining how he got off the plane in the first place.

He didn't kill a god (unless Seren and Zaros have a third sibling they don't know about).

The Rituals aren't a viable method for ascending (at least not on Freneskae) as we saw with the Chelon Mah.

It could be an elder artifact, I guess (which would explain the still unaccounted for artifact in the Desert), but I personally question the magnitude of such an artifact's power given the potency of the Measure.

Maybe he left the plane via the World Gate some time after Guthix had visited, and then found his artifact and ascended (not necessarily in that order) afterwards.

22-Nov-2016 15:56:48

Kemtros
Aug Member 2022

Kemtros

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I was interested that the explanation behind Hazeel's horns was that it was a curse for betraying Mah's intentions. It's certainly a more satisfying answer than "He did it because he's a shapeshifter." So I could see Tumeken's gem functioning different because he was a Mahserrat. Perhaps what we saw with Temekel was the opposite of Hazeel? Whereas Hazeel was a Mahserrat who defected to the Mahjarrat, maybe Temekel was a Mahjarrat who joined with an ascended Mahserrat?

22-Nov-2016 16:15:55

Lord Bhaal

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In one of the journals from the empty throne there is a bit of info on this.
With Temekel's name, being a mahjarrat, being quite similair to Tumeken.

But in the journal they fight Temekel in the desert, while he should have died on Frenneskae.

It's very much possible Temekel and Tumeken were one and the same.
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22-Nov-2016 17:42:02

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Lord Bhaal said :
In one of the journals from the empty throne there is a bit of info on this.
With Temekel's name, being a mahjarrat, being quite similair to Tumeken.

But in the journal they fight Temekel in the desert, while he should have died on Frenneskae.

It's very much possible Temekel and Tumeken were one and the same.

As Bilrach is keen to point out in the very letter you are referencing, Temekel was at the battle where Tumeken blew himself up and was assumed to be dead.

The similar name bit has some value though, given that we know of at least one Mahjarrat who inherited his name (Zemouregal was named after his father Zemouregal).

22-Nov-2016 18:48:49

Kemtros
Aug Member 2022

Kemtros

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Temekel wouldn't have died on Freneskae, as he was one of the Mahjarrat in favor of leaving the place. It was pointed out that they pretty much only agreed to go with Icthlarin and Amascut because Temekel and Azzanadra both agreed on it.

22-Nov-2016 20:37:21

A Mighty

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So when it's all set and done all the surviving Mahjarrat will ascend. Hell, we should just make them all ascend now and call it a day. Zamorak, Lucien, Sliske, Azzanadra, Tumeken/Temekel... If this theory is true (and it certainly is a damn good theory) that's 5 already who either ascended or got pretty damn close..
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23-Nov-2016 00:17:33

Voraiya
Mar Member 2021

Voraiya

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Hmm..

So, are the 4 Ancient Warriors. Vesta, Statius, Morrigan and Zuriel followers of Elidinis? Are they her personal body guards? or are they commanders or Generals for Elidinis army during the Third age?

Eldinis was around during the God Wars. She allied with Saradomin. But later force to leave when Guthix banished all the major gods.

23-Nov-2016 01:28:55

CD_Paladin_C

CD_Paladin_C

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While a good theory there's a lot of holes in it.

1)As already mentioned, getting off frenaskae. Btw the elder artefacts were created long after the current revision started after the elder gods realized that they couldn't create another perfect planet. The measure was likely brought to Frenaske by Zaros during the 2nd age.

2)In Kharsai's memories it was hinted at the Khazard's birth was a huge milestone especially since no mahjarrat had to die. If Tumeken had been a mahjarrat, this wouldn't have been a huge feat for Zamorak.

3)Don't start with the Temekel is Tumeken stuff. The mahjarrat all knew him, they would've noticed if he had been ducking in and out. Plus he didn't turn to stone when Lucien or Bilrach can't remember which killed him.

4)The Mahjarrat can sense Auras as we saw with Zamorak sensing that Seren had been pretending to be Mah, or Khazard IDing Wahi during RotM, they would've known if their old time buddy had been moonlighting as a god in his free time. "Your god's dead next time he's in a world event. "
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23-Nov-2016 03:37:56

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