RuneScape Forum Archive | Desperate Times discussion?

Hazeel

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Dennorak said :
I can't really see the World Gate as being a viable option, it's big enough to maybe fit one or two people at a time. Opening portals to new realms for Gods to travel alone seems to be doable.

The World Gate was enough for Guthix to bring everyone here in the first place. If we're talking about last minute evacuations, then yes, it'd be a problem. But there's plenty of time.

Dennorak said :
Not to mention the gods all came to Gielinor for a reason, this is the best planet out there.

On paper? Maybe. But in practice? Look at how it all turned out. Saradomin, Armadyl, Guthix, Seren, Zaros...they all came here for peace. What ended up happening? Gielinor became the biggest war zone in the cosmos. Before Zamorak ascended and Bandos showed up, all the Gods wanted peace, and yet they were still constantly fighting each other. Multiple races went extinct.

Fighting for a "Peaceful Gielinor" is like fighting for "Perfect Communism" IMO. It's a naive and foolish dream that will never happen. How many more need to die before the Gods realize this? How many more need to be sacrificed to this fantasy? Removing Zamorak and Bandos won't solve anything, because there was still constant warring before they arrived. Removing all the Gods will just bring us back to the warring state of the Fifth Age.

Then there's Zamorak, who came with the others because he feared stagnation and wanted prosperity. The Mahjarrat are also dead and have stagnated in Gielinor.

The Godless are fighting for a Godless world in the one world that attracts the most Gods and one of the few that actually has Gods in it to begin with.

Bandos was the only one who got what he wanted--constant war--and now he's dead. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

14-May-2019 08:01:17

Jul

2020

Dennorak

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Well Guthix didn't bring everyone here, several races arrived in bulk with other gods, Zamorak brought most of the Demons, Zaros brought several races such as Vampyres, Demons etc. Saradomin brought the Icyene (and probably a good chunk of humans), Armadyl brought the aviansie, Bandos brought... well pretty much every typical Bandosian race etc.

I agree a peaceful Gielinor, completely peaceful, is a dream rather than something that can be turned into a reality, but Gielinor itself offers the most potential of any of the worlds. Yes, Gielinor has a history of being a war ravaged world, but there is a reason all of the Gods fight over Gielinor and not Infernus, Hallow, or Terragarde. This planet is the Elder Gods perfect creation, and one we shouldn't sacrifice readily without trying other options.

I think that's my main issue with Kerapac's plan. He is prepared to make that sacrifice immediately without testing other options. He certainly has a somewhat... sympathetic motive? While sacrificing an entire planet is a horrible thing to do, the prospect of saving all other planets is a noble one. I just think sacrificing Gielinor should be a last resort, not something you jump into.

Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

14-May-2019 15:54:28 - Last edited on 14-May-2019 16:08:42 by Dennorak

Jul

2020

Dennorak

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For those who have done the quest, there is dialogue missing from Roald/Amik due to a bug, I will post it here:

R: It's quite hard being the king you know.
R: When your literal god is nearby, no one really wants to listen the king.
A: I can imagine
R: No one really wants your advice as a king when your god is next door.
R: Oh they'll come round and say hi.
R :But its only ever for the paperwork.
R: No one really WANTS to know. You know?
A: Yes your majesty, terribly tragic.
A: My heart overflows with sympathy for you.
A: But I really must urge you back to the point at hand.
A: I need to know how many young men you can push to the white knights.
R: Conscription? Really? Is this what we have come to?
R: We're not at war, what could we possibly need to conscript for?
A: Begging your pardon your majesty, but I must correct you.
A: We are not at war, yet..
A: The black knights are up to something, we need to be prepared for them.
R: Fine fine fine. What Saradomin wants, Saradomin gets.
R: But I think it's all fuss over nothing.

Daquarius/Crane/Blacklock also have dialogue hinting at future Kinshra vs White Knight conflict. Something is being built up there for future story, and I am quite interested at where it's going.

Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

14-May-2019 17:11:57 - Last edited on 14-May-2019 17:13:05 by Dennorak

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dennorak said :
Well Guthix didn't bring everyone here, several races arrived in bulk with other gods,

Sure, but it is still capable of moving races in bulk--not to mention the Gods can move their followers around, especially with how much time they have.

Dennorak said :
This planet is the Elder Gods perfect creation, and one we shouldn't sacrifice readily without trying other options.

"Perfect creation" simply means this is the most delicious meal on the table. Unless you're Zaros and plan to become an Elder God, why should this matter? So far the other options have been:

-Become an Elder God, immediately usurp leadership, and tell the Elder Gods to stop. But Zaros is an egomaniacal moron and didn't think that the Elder Gods might just say "no".

-Simply remove the anima. This was stopped based on a conspiracy theory which held no evidence for it, a mountain of evidence against it, and would be temporary at worst since anima regenerates.

-Build. A . Garden. Because Seren is an idiot. Because all the other factions are idiots. Because Seren is another egomaniac and thinks that the Elders view the world the same way she does. Still.

The only one that's remotely reasonable is #2, but that ship has sailed.

Dennorak said :
I think that's my main issue with Kerapac's plan. He is prepared to make that sacrifice immediately without testing other options.

There wouldn't be time to test the others. You mention getting everyone out in time, well that certainly would be an issue if we waited to enact this at the last moment when their children hatch.

Even if we assume that the other plans would work, the problem they all have is that it's a band-aid fix. At best, we can hope mortals remember to remove the anima every few thousand years for the rest of eternity. At worst, we have to convince the elders and hope they don't change their minds or become overlords. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

14-May-2019 18:26:28

Hauyne

Posts: 32 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

It is interesting to note that Kerapac and Sliske, two of Runescape's most dangerous villains, are basically opposites and parallel of each other.

They are both powerful beings that are far more powerful than their kind without being gods or anything inherently special, but rather through mad science/magic (pretty much science = magic in Runescape). They both achieved exceptional feats, and are both exceptionally cruel and brutal in their ways.

However, while Sliske did evil things for 'fun' or pure sadism, Kerapac did them for pragmatism (not always, sometimes it's just because he's angry).

15-May-2019 02:47:09

Jul

2020

Dennorak

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I would be curious about Kerapac's original (fake?) plan of just keeping them in a state of perpetual sleep? Why wouldn't that work? I have a feeling it would, but with what the Elders did to the Dragonkin Kerapac probably wants a more satisfying form of revenge.

Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

15-May-2019 04:45:30

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dennorak said :
I would be curious about Kerapac's original (fake?) plan of just keeping them in a state of perpetual sleep? Why wouldn't that work? I have a feeling it would, but with what the Elders did to the Dragonkin Kerapac probably wants a more satisfying form of revenge.

This was Xenia's plan. Then Ariane stopped it, resulting in the Elders waking up prematurely. Now that they're awake, that ship has sailed. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

15-May-2019 04:57:08

Jul

2020

Dennorak

Posts: 4,414 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
Dennorak said :
I would be curious about Kerapac's original (fake?) plan of just keeping them in a state of perpetual sleep? Why wouldn't that work? I have a feeling it would, but with what the Elders did to the Dragonkin Kerapac probably wants a more satisfying form of revenge.

This was Xenia's plan. Then Ariane stopped it, resulting in the Elders waking up prematurely. Now that they're awake, that ship has sailed.
It wasn’t her plan. Her plan involved draining Gielinor of anima to starve the elder gods. Kerapac’s was to use the needle to keep them in an eternal state of sleep.

Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

15-May-2019 05:18:40

Hazeel

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Dennorak said :
Hazeel said :
Dennorak said :
I would be curious about Kerapac's original (fake?) plan of just keeping them in a state of perpetual sleep? Why wouldn't that work? I have a feeling it would, but with what the Elders did to the Dragonkin Kerapac probably wants a more satisfying form of revenge.

This was Xenia's plan. Then Ariane stopped it, resulting in the Elders waking up prematurely. Now that they're awake, that ship has sailed.
It wasn’t her plan. Her plan involved draining Gielinor of anima to starve the elder gods. Kerapac’s was to use the needle to keep them in an eternal state of sleep.

Her plan was to prevent them from waking. This would have never starved the Elder Gods. If you want to starve them, you need to remove all life (or change its nature). Much like plants create oxygen, life creates anima. Even removing it would only be temporary solution, unless you have a constant vacuum effect.

Original message details are unavailable.
The elder gods feed on the Anima Mundi, the natural flow of energy in the world. If we were to take that energy and siphon it away, then the elder gods would never wake up. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

15-May-2019 07:25:23 - Last edited on 15-May-2019 07:32:39 by Hazeel

Hauyne

Posts: 32 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dennorak said :
While sacrificing Gielinor COULD be necessary, I don't think it should be plan A. You should be pushing to save Gielinor, and if you need to sacrifice it you do so as a last resort. I think Kerapac is just blinded by his anger/lust for revenge after what Jas did to his people, that he is willing to make that sacrifice from the get go.

You may be right that Kerapac wants revenge for his people, and he is guided by rage here. But Seren's plan isn't actually putting saving Gielinor as a priority as much as saving her aunts.
Original message details are unavailable.

Seren: No. We can't do that. Whatever threat they possess, they are still our creators...

Kerapac: Which means what exactly? That they have the right to destroy us? That we should prostrate ourselves in fear at the mention of their names? Must we live as frightened children to abusive parents? No.

--and later when others agree with Kerapac--
Original message details are unavailable.

Seren: Is...is this the will of you all? Will you not see reason? Must my aunts be punished for crimes they cannot understand?

Hazeel said :
Why...the hell...did anyone entertain Seren's plan?

Maybe the council initially entertained her ideas because she's a powerful and somewhat respected goddess after all. But afterwards, they started to question and even mock her ideas because it's just silly and most importantly, prioritize in playing nice with the Elder Gods before saving Gielinor.

This is also shown in Children of Mah, even when Mah was going to drain the life out of all Mahjarrats and Seren/Zaros, she refused to see her die even when there was no other alternative in sight. The Mahjarrat had no such mercy to Mah, just as Kerapac has no such mercy to Jas and the Elder Gods.

15-May-2019 18:35:46 - Last edited on 15-May-2019 18:38:11 by Hauyne

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Desperate Times discussion?