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Androme

Androme

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How good an empire is for its people is not measured in material wealth. Also the Zarosian empire being safer for humans than Saradominist lands is actually false, the same mod we're talking about stated the complete opposite, reasons being is that first of all, they were far worse off under Zaros' rule, and they were surrounded by monsters that despised them.

06-Dec-2013 21:22:31 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 21:23:41 by Androme

Balustan

Balustan

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Androme said :
How good an empire is for its people is not measured in material wealth. Also the Zarosian empire being safer for humans than Saradominist lands is actually false, the same mod we\'re talking about stated the complete opposite.

People like material wealth. Especially in medieval times. People would forgo happiness for it. It is perfectly reasonable to assume people would simply submit to any ruler especially one who will end up giving them more material wealth.

I do not believe he did state the opposite. He stated the humans felt safer and secure within their empire sure but the Saradominist Empire did not have the might of the Zarosian Empire which was until Zaros fell the most secure Empire with the most prosperous future.
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06-Dec-2013 21:25:06

Androme

Androme

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...

He wrote that they were treated better by Saradomin than the other gods, and that they were far happier and were living under much better conditions under Saradomins lands than in Zaros'.

Whether people like material wealth or not is not what I was talking about. The Zarosian empire being stronger (solely because Zaros has no morals and was stronger than the other gods) does not mean that the people living in said empire were better off than in other societies.

Seriously we're now discussing something that has been settled a long time ago. Zaros' Empire was TERRIBLE for people to live in, we know that by now from several posts made by mods.

06-Dec-2013 21:32:02 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 21:32:43 by Androme

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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Androme said :
Solan. You're assuming he: ''..so he will lie, omit and twist things beyond all recognition, if he thinks he can get away with it.'' just because NPC's can be wrong and can lie. Note ''can''.
I find the events of the Naragi homeplane to be fairly obvious, same with the timeline with all significant events which I posted somewhere else a couple of days ago.

You completely missed they why and skipped to the end of the book. And if you look at all the recent information, it does show a pattern. The biggest part of the assumption that is the bed rock of the counter arguments, is 'what Saradomin learned'. Tha fact is what people claim he learned and his action do not bare out and that supposed unassailable dross that doesn't match events is the platform for which most of the counter arguments are launched from.

I've already detail the why and the what for. I even detailed the underlying reason why the counter arguments were based on a false premise of 'saving the people', when they no longer need to be saved. That was nothing more than a war of aggression. Based on a lie that their followers would all swallow when attacking 'the Zarosian hoards' The hoards that were ironically also the very people they were claiming to be saving.

The argument that nothing happened is almost as bad as the fact that some still insist that no causality lists means no deaths, so it never happened. Everyone is dead, no building survived, above ground. The only people who did survive where the ones they ened up imprisoning. And the War of Excision waged in the Zarosian territories was never about freeing anyone.

It's like calling Saradomin's invasion of the Naragi homeworld a war of liberation. Propaganda at best. The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

06-Dec-2013 21:36:25 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 21:46:04 by Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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You also overlook modifiers to sentence to concentrate on one or two words. So lets work backwards with what you have said to remodify my statement to fit your particular twist. You may call it putting words in your mouth but you are the one overlooking the sentence modifiers, so lets have some fun. . . .




Saradomin never lies. . .

Saradomin always tells everyone everything leaving nothing out. . . .

Saradomin will tell you about something with no confrontation needed. . . .

Saradomin only went to Lumbridge to defend it against Zamorak. . .

Saradomin only went to Zarosian lands to fight the oppressive non-human hoards.. .
(Even though the non-humans he was fighting were now all on the Zamorakian army he was not attacking)


Saradomin welcomed each an every human and escorted them back to his lands. .

Saradomin never hurt anyone for any reason, he only banishes after all. . .



You and I both know none of that is true, yet your counter argument would insist they are by implication. Even Lumbridge, Saradomin only went there to attack Zamorak, with no thought at all about the people there. If you listen to Above the Lore Ep6 you'd know that for a fact. Along with the fact that Jagex purposefully moved the battle 'far enough away' from Lumbridge but still kept it close enough to be a recognisable spot.

Canonical fact: If BoL had taken place in Lumbridge proper the opening shot would have wiped Lumbridge off the map.
The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

06-Dec-2013 21:36:41 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 21:41:52 by Solanumtinkr

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Androme said :
Okay Balustan, sure, we have no concrete evidence, but if you seriously think the people that Zaros conquered whom he placed to serve as near-slaves in dreadful conditions suddenly had a change of heart and thus decided to become loyal to Zaros, you\'re only fooling yourself, and you know that perfectly well.

I want it to be canon that he entered their dreams a night, told them all the benefits of the Zarosian empire and slowly wooed them to his side, maybe with a little bit of inception ;)

06-Dec-2013 21:39:33

Balustan

Balustan

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Androme said :
...\n\nHe wrote that they were treated better by Saradomin than the other gods, and that they were far happier and were living under much better conditions under Saradomins lands than in Zaros\'.\n\nWhether people like material wealth or not is not what I was talking about. The Zarosian empire being stronger (solely because Zaros has no morals and was stronger than the other gods) does not mean that the people living in said empire were better off than in other societies.\n\nSeriously we\'re now discussing something that has been settled a long time ago. Zaros\' Empire was TERRIBLE for people to live in, we know that by now from several posts made by mods.

Just as other empires were also terrible where they lived with in poverty. You claim brainwashing is the only way they would switch sides this is a fallacy. People would switch sides for material wealth. If you think otherwise you know nothing of the real world, how humans think or understand history.
Lewis
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Quester
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06-Dec-2013 22:23:34

Neo Bestia

Neo Bestia

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Sapun said :
A land ruled by Saradomin would literally have nothing interesting going on.\n\nProof: Entrana.

Nonsense, during Enlightened Journey you get to see an angry mob in action! :P

Oh, and I woun't really comment on the alleged Zarosian Genocide until more info on the 2nd age is released. And probs Saradomin and Zamorak will have a few things to say on that regard as well.

07-Dec-2013 00:49:45

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