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Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Seraphius said :
Balustan said :
Raxxess said :
Finally found it, kept looking in the world wakes but this is from the One of a kind FaQ


Q: When Guthix brought humans to Gielinor, did they already know of Saradomin? Why or why not?

Mod Raven: Yes, Saradomin was the god that governed the humans, though they may not have seen him for a while.

Mod Osborne: It would be interesting to know if these humans told Guthix about Saradomin, and whether Guthix then related that to the Saradomin of his homeworld. Did he bring the humans to Gielinor, and away from Saradomin, as some form of revenge?

This quote proves nothing. It is Obsorne questioning it himself. Also governing humans once is not the same as governing them forever and not abandoning them. All this suggests is that when he abandoned them the humans didn't know he abandoned them which is even worse.

And so you'd say to all religious people in the real world that just because they haven't physically seen their god in the flesh for a couple generations, their god has definitively abandoned them? Zaros or Drakan, for example, doesn't appear to the public eye very often either - have they abandoned their people as well?

Yes well not abandoned cause I being atheist do not believe they ever existed. There is a difference between what Zaros did and full abandonment though I'd say he partially abandoned them yes. Same with Drakan.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

23-May-2014 19:38:39

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Raxxess said :
Balustan said :
Raxxess said :
Finally found it, kept looking in the world wakes but this is from the One of a kind FaQ


Q: When Guthix brought humans to Gielinor, did they already know of Saradomin? Why or why not?

Mod Raven: Yes, Saradomin was the god that governed the humans, though they may not have seen him for a while.

Mod Osborne: It would be interesting to know if these humans told Guthix about Saradomin, and whether Guthix then related that to the Saradomin of his homeworld. Did he bring the humans to Gielinor, and away from Saradomin, as some form of revenge?

This quote proves nothing. It is Obsorne questioning it himself. Also governing humans once is not the same as governing them forever and not abandoning them. All this suggests is that when he abandoned them the humans didn't know he abandoned them which is even worse.

That's just warping it to fit with what you want. If you want saradomin to have tons of negatives bring it to the stories section because this is the lore section.

Also this just shows that now your applying again speculation to points you previously claimed were "canon" which they weren't to begin with.

Balustan said :
The humans who Guthix brought were abandoned by Saradomin else Guthix would never have brought them. This is canon.


I couldn't care what Saradomin was like in terms of more positives or negatives. I am simply stating what was in a tweet by Mod Obsorne some time ago. Of course if you want to say Twitter posts are non-canon then stop using Mod Stu's quotes to back up the positives of Saradomin tyvm.
Lewis
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Quester
|
Scottish

23-May-2014 19:40:18

Raxxess

Raxxess

Posts: 2,236 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Balustan said :
Raxxess said :
Balustan said :
Raxxess said :
Finally found it, kept looking in the world wakes but this is from the One of a kind FaQ


Q: When Guthix brought humans to Gielinor, did they already know of Saradomin? Why or why not?

Mod Raven: Yes, Saradomin was the god that governed the humans, though they may not have seen him for a while.

Mod Osborne: It would be interesting to know if these humans told Guthix about Saradomin, and whether Guthix then related that to the Saradomin of his homeworld. Did he bring the humans to Gielinor, and away from Saradomin, as some form of revenge?

This quote proves nothing. It is Obsorne questioning it himself. Also governing humans once is not the same as governing them forever and not abandoning them. All this suggests is that when he abandoned them the humans didn't know he abandoned them which is even worse.

That's just warping it to fit with what you want. If you want saradomin to have tons of negatives bring it to the stories section because this is the lore section.

Also this just shows that now your applying again speculation to points you previously claimed were "canon" which they weren't to begin with.

Balustan said :
The humans who Guthix brought were abandoned by Saradomin else Guthix would never have brought them. This is canon.


I couldn't care what Saradomin was like in terms of more positives or negatives. I am simply stating what was in a tweet by Mod Obsorne some time ago. Of course if you want to say Twitter posts are non-canon then stop using Mod Stu's quotes to back up the positives of Saradomin tyvm.

Those are actual quotes, he doesn't defend saradomin either just clarifies what was implied in the quest he made. Mod Jack has a good post about this canonical thing in the "Zarosian Genocide False" post.
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

23-May-2014 20:13:45

Dennorak
Jul Member 2020

Dennorak

Posts: 4,414 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I can back Balustan on the quote, a mod did say Saradomin abandoned the humans. I am not sure which mod it was, but I believe it was said somewhere ona podcast or twitter.
Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

23-May-2014 20:39:03 - Last edited on 23-May-2014 20:40:48 by Dennorak

Raxxess

Raxxess

Posts: 2,236 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dennorak said :
I can back Balustan on the quote, a mod did say Saradomin abandoned the humans. I am not sure which mod it was, but I believe it was said somewhere on twitter.

He said it was the lore live stream but I'm just going to post this because I think mod jack sums it up perfectly and seeing as Saradominists get so much flaming for not taking the headcannon/assumption of jmod quotes or the opinions of npcs seriously I'm just going to post this to hopefully explain why I don't take a lot of the headcanon as actually canon.

Original message details are unavailable.

It means you need to bear in mind the significance of the source in the way you make your point.

It's never appropriate to be rude, but if you're going to be rude you'd better make sure you have cast iron facts or sources to back it up.

For example, if someone posts a thread saying "Since Guthix isn't dead, such-and-such theory" then I could understand a respondent being a little terse in their response. The facts necessary to disprove this theory are so significant and unmistakable in the primary source that missing them is a little strange.

If someone posts a theory and your only source for "disproving" them is something stated in AoG, a novel, a god letter, a podcast, an FAQ, a jmod pa jmod post (including one of mine) and so on, then you need to back off on your tone and present your findings with a forcefulness appropriate to the source.

You can't say "you're wrong because of AOG which makes you stupid na-na-na" because the source doesn't support such a level of confidence.

There is more to this post in kitty's "zarosian genocide=false" Making the assertion that "saradomin abandoned the humans because they were weak" just goes against his character, its inconsistent with other events, we don't know when he went to New Domina. I need a lot more than just "it was a quote somewhere" to treat it as canon
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

23-May-2014 20:50:16 - Last edited on 23-May-2014 20:55:09 by Raxxess

Dennorak
Jul Member 2020

Dennorak

Posts: 4,414 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Raxxess said :
Dennorak said :
I can back Balustan on the quote, a mod did say Saradomin abandoned the humans. I am not sure which mod it was, but I believe it was said somewhere on twitter.

He said it was the lore live stream but I'm just going to post this because I think mod jack sums it up perfectly and seeing as Saradominists get so much flaming for not taking the headcannon/assumption of jmod quotes or the opinions of npcs seriously I'm just going to post this to hopefully explain why I don't take a lot of the headcanon as actually canon.

Original message details are unavailable.

It means you need to bear in mind the significance of the source in the way you make your point.

It's never appropriate to be rude, but if you're going to be rude you'd better make sure you have cast iron facts or sources to back it up.

For example, if someone posts a thread saying "Since Guthix isn't dead, such-and-such theory" then I could understand a respondent being a little terse in their response. The facts necessary to disprove this theory are so significant and unmistakable in the primary source that missing them is a little strange.

If someone posts a theory and your only source for "disproving" them is something stated in AoG, a novel, a god letter, a podcast, an FAQ, a jmod pa jmod post (including one of mine) and so on, then you need to back off on your tone and present your findings with a forcefulness appropriate to the source.

You can't say "you're wrong because of AOG which makes you stupid na-na-na" because the source doesn't support such a level of confidence.

There is more to this post in kitty's "zarosian genocide=false"
Yeah, I knew it came out of a J-mod's mouth, just wasn't sure where.
Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

23-May-2014 20:53:30

Seraphius
Jul Member 2023

Seraphius

Posts: 207 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dennorak said :
I can back Balustan on the quote, a mod did say Saradomin abandoned the humans. I am not sure which mod it was, but I believe it was said somewhere ona podcast or twitter.

Not that we have any particular reason to distrust your word on the subject, but 'I believe I've heard that somewhere' is really not good enough to be presented as evidence. Opinion yes, but not evidence. Since the present debate revolves around objective truth, we'd really appreciate it if you'd care to supply the exact quotes on this matter - else we'll just be waggling tongues regarding 'oh he said this I'm sure' 'No he didn't' for a very long time.

23-May-2014 20:55:39

Dennorak
Jul Member 2020

Dennorak

Posts: 4,414 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Seraphius said :
Dennorak said :
I can back Balustan on the quote, a mod did say Saradomin abandoned the humans. I am not sure which mod it was, but I believe it was said somewhere ona podcast or twitter.

Not that we have any particular reason to distrust your word on the subject, but 'I believe I've heard that somewhere' is really not good enough to be presented as evidence. Opinion yes, but not evidence. Since the present debate revolves around objective truth, we'd really appreciate it if you'd care to supply the exact quotes on this matter - else we'll just be waggling tongues regarding 'oh he said this I'm sure' 'No he didn't' for a very long time.
Let me go try to find the divination live-stream.

Edit- just realized I have no idea how to find it ^_^ . I'm sure someone can search for it, but I am 100% sure it was said.
Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

23-May-2014 20:57:12 - Last edited on 23-May-2014 20:58:27 by Dennorak

Raxxess

Raxxess

Posts: 2,236 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Seraphius said :
Dennorak said :
I can back Balustan on the quote, a mod did say Saradomin abandoned the humans. I am not sure which mod it was, but I believe it was said somewhere ona podcast or twitter.

Not that we have any particular reason to distrust your word on the subject, but 'I believe I've heard that somewhere' is really not good enough to be presented as evidence. Opinion yes, but not evidence. Since the present debate revolves around objective truth, we'd really appreciate it if you'd care to supply the exact quotes on this matter - else we'll just be waggling tongues regarding 'oh he said this I'm sure' 'No he didn't' for a very long time.

We don't even know if that's what was actually said, I still have no real idea where it was said the livestream is like 4 hours long.

And Saradomin abandoning his followers because they were weak its not a minor detail that is a huge piece of lore that doesn't follow along with any existing lore and kind of retcons other pieces and builds lore itself like if that is the case then its for sure that saradomin colonized the planes with humans before he arrived on New Domina which is a huge piece of info off an apparent J-mod quote.

Which is why I think the people that disagreed with Balustan's points are justified that would be a major lore re-adjustment its need a lot more than a j-mod quote.
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

23-May-2014 21:00:11

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